Thoughts On The End Of The Landry Era

[parchy]

Everybody blames Jerry Jones for "forcing" Landry out the door, which is funny. Given, Jerry had his guy (Jimmy), but he made it known faaar before he was hired that he and JJ were a package deal. Bum Bright is the one that ultimately "forced" Tom out the door. He haaated Landry and wanted an owner that would clean house, and knowing Jerry to be who he was, his choice for successor was a no-brainer. Bright would have forced Landry out the door even earlier if Schramm hadn't gone behind his back and signed Landry to a guaranteed 3-year deal instead of three one year deals like he told him to.

For the most part, Jerry was just caught in the crossfire.

[dboyz]

Great thread.

I have the utmost for Landry the person and also the incredible coach that he was. I think he could definitely still coach at the time he was fired, it was just lack of talent.

Landry was distant and didn't connect with players. He stated that he didn't want to get too close to players, because it would cause him to not make decisions rationally. That was his style and I think you have to respect that. I'm sure Tom was a very different person around his friends and family than he was as football coach. He was trying to do his job in the best job in the way he knew how. Parcells is totally opposite. He gets close to his players and gets to know them, but still tries not to let it affect his decisions. Two styles and two totally different personalities. Both work.

As far as the firing of Landry, I was disappointed when it happened and really wanted Landry to rebuild the franchise, because I thought he could still do it, especially with Aikman coming in. Jones botched the firing, but there was nothing intentional about it. He didn't intend for it to get leaked out, but it did. Bum Bright could have handled the firing, becuase I think he wanted Landry gone, but didn't have the guts to do it.

Landry held a bit of a grudge with the way it was handled, but as much as I respected Landry, I think Tom (as most of us would do) was just sensitive about what had happened because he held the job for 29 years and thought he should go out on his own terms. I think however he would have been fired, he would not have been happy.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by parchy

Everybody blames Jerry Jones for "forcing" Landry out the door, which is funny. Given, Jerry had his guy (Jimmy), but he made it known faaar before he was hired that he and JJ were a package deal. Bum Bright is the one that ultimately "forced" Tom out the door. He haaated Landry and wanted an owner that would clean house, and knowing Jerry to be who he was, his choice for successor was a no-brainer. Bright would have forced Landry out the door even earlier if Schramm hadn't gone behind his back and signed Landry to a guaranteed 3-year deal instead of three one year deals like he told him to.

For the most part, Jerry was just caught in the crossfire.

Parchy, that is news to me and it puts a different slant on the Jerry Jones action. Still, Jerry did it in an awkward way that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I must give him credit, though, for getting that hat in the Ring of Honor.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by dboyz

Great thread.

I have the utmost for Coach Landry the person and also the incredible coach that he was. I think he could definitely still coach at the time he was fired, it was just lack of talent.

Did you watch the games back then or old enough to remember? He was really losing it at the end. I had the utmost respect for what he did for the franchise, but it was clear, he just didn't have it anymore. It wasn't his fault, it is just that we were so ahead of the curve for so long, the rest of the league caught up. The lack of talent issue was glaring, but what hurt more was that we couldn't use our bad talent to harvest more (we swindled more teams in trade than I can count) and we squandered most of the choices we made.

One fallacy about that era (like the Johnson one too) is that we just drafted so well and hit on the talent. That's completely false. Go back and look at how many first, second and third round choices we simply blew. We aren't talking average players who couldn't crack the roster on a great team, we are talking players who didn't play anywhere in the league once we gave up.

We simply stockpiled choices like Coach Johnson did and hit on a reasonable percent and played the averages. Where we really cleaned up was scouting well outside of the draft. We took players that went undrafted and made them All Pros. Take Drew Pearson and Cliff Harris for example. Once other teams smartened up, they began to do the same things that we did for years without competition.

We also gave up early on talent that did well elsewhere: LB Mike Walter & Steve DeBerg (49ers) and TE Todd Christensen (Raiders) are two classic examples. They were ours once, but we cut them quickly.

[dboyz]

Originally Posted by Alexander

Did you watch the games back then or old enough to remember? He was really losing it at the end. I had the utmost respect for what he did for the franchise, but it was clear, he just didn't have it anymore. .

Yeah I started watching the late 70's early 80's so I remember that era well. And let me say that I can't argue that firing Landry didn't turn out well for the franchise. 3 Super Bowls later and no one can argue that. However, I do believe that Landry could still coach.

They drafted terribly in the 80's. You talk about the Johnson not hitting on every pick, but the draft is a crapshoot and Johnson stockpiled picks and hit on enough. Johnson also was fortunate enough to have a franchise quarterback fall in his lap.

But nearly every 1st round pick in the 80's was a bust. Kevin Brooks and Billy Cannon, and Danny Noonan and on and on. Injuries were also a big problem. Mike Sherrard kept getting hurt. 87 started out ok, and then Danny White got hurt. Two draft picks that turned out pretty well that Landry didn't get the chance to see much because of injuries: Irvin and Norton.

If you look at that 88 team, there was hardly any good young talent on it. None. Ray Alexander (if I remember right) was the leading receiver. We had one guy: Herschel Walker (and Jimmy did the right thing with him). The solid veterans like Too Tall and Randy White had aged and were shells of their former selves.

Anyway, its a question we'll never know the answer to. I think that the "game has passed him buy" argument gets thrown out there pretty quickly when the talent dries up. People had been been saying that about Paterno at Penn St., and lo and behold he gets some talent and they have a good year.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by parchy

Everybody blames Jerry Jones for "forcing" Landry out the door, which is funny. Given, Jerry had his guy (Jimmy), but he made it known faaar before he was hired that he and JJ were a package deal. Bum Bright is the one that ultimately "forced" Tom out the door. He haaated Landry and wanted an owner that would clean house, and knowing Jerry to be who he was, his choice for successor was a no-brainer. Bright would have forced Landry out the door even earlier if Schramm hadn't gone behind his back and signed Landry to a guaranteed 3-year deal instead of three one year deals like he told him to.

For the most part, Jerry was just caught in the crossfire.

I always blamed Bum Bright. He knew what was about to happen and as the employer of Landry and Tex, Bum should have told them what the deal was. It would have allowed Landry the oppertunity to step down as HC instead of putting Jones who already had a coach in tow in the position of firing him. Only thing I faulted Jones for and Jones himself has admitted it could have been done better but in the end it was going to happen.

[Big Dakota]

Originally Posted by Alexander

That he did, but it was time.

I don't know if he would have stepped aside so Jones could bring in Johnson. In a way, it is a no-win for Jerry Jones. But once Bright sold the team, it made logical sense that Landry go. He clearly was not as sharp as he was in the years prior. We had lost our edge, that was completely clear.

Exactly!

I was 26 at the time. I had lived through the good times and the bad times. I loved old Tom, but the worm had turned for the threesome of Landry, Schramm and Brandt. Bum was not a great owner. He probably would have hung onto the old guys and we would have NEVER won in the 90's, but thank god Bum needed the cash and Jerry stepped in. I remember it like it was yeatsrday. I was just so overjoyed the team was going in a different direction and we had a guy like Jimmy coming in to coach. I didn't know who this Jerry Jones guy was, but he was young and enthusiastic and we had the #1 overall pick and we were gonna get Troy. It was like a weight was lifted for me. I knew the wins would be few and far between for a while, but i also knew we had a chance to turn things aroound.

[parchy]

Originally Posted by Alexander

One fallacy about that era (like the Johnson one too) is that we just drafted so well and hit on the talent. That's completely false. Go back and look at how many first, second and third round choices we simply blew. We aren't talking average players who couldn't crack the roster on a great team, we are talking players who didn't play anywhere in the league once we gave up.

Those first round busts were the reason why the mid, late-80's were such lean years, and probably why Landry ultimately was fired. Picks like Larry Bethea were simply products of the rest of the NFL's scouting departments catching up. Heck, Schramm was the first to do so many things (intensive scouting outside of the first two rounds, taking players from basketball and other sports, using computers to assess talent etc...) that they were forced to take a ton of chances to try and stay ahead. Unfortunately for them, they had one too many busts.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by parchy

Those first round busts were the reason why the mid, late-80's were such lean years, and probably why Landry ultimately was fired. Picks like Larry Bethea were simply products of the rest of the NFL's scouting departments catching up. Heck, Schramm was the first to do so many things (intensive scouting outside of the first two rounds, taking players from basketball and other sports, using computers to assess talent etc...) that they were forced to take a ton of chances to try and stay ahead. Unfortunately for them, they had one too many busts.

I don't think the game passed Landry by, I agree we had some bust we also had guys like Sherrad that who got injured as well as Irvin. I'm confident that Landry would have taken Aikman based on seeing Tom meet Troy at the 50 yard line at the cotton bowl after the UCLA and Ark was over which is not something you would normally see from NFL HC and all speculation at that time was Dallas was going to get Troy in the upcoming draft. I understood why Jones wanted to go in a different direction so I never held that against him but I do not believe the game passed Landry by

[parchy]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I don't think the game passed Landry by, I agree we had some bust we also had guys like Sherrad that who got injured as well as Irvin. I'm confident that Landry would have taken Aikman based on seeing Tom meet Troy at the 50 yard line at the cotton bowl after the UCLA and Ark was over which is not something you would normally see from NFL HC and all speculation at that time was Dallas was going to get Troy in the upcoming draft. I understood why Jones wanted to go in a different direction so I never held that against him but I do not believe the game passed Landry by

The reason I think he would have been fine is because he fired Hackett, whose wide-open offensive schemes never meshed with his, and Tom had finally agreed to give up on the Flex before he was fired. They would have scooted those linemen up a little bit and moved into a base 4-3, which would have made up a couple of points each game in itself. I think he would have been fine had Jerry decided to keep him on board, but oh well. Three Super Bowls later and we're free to discuss this without bitterness, I suppose.

[ravidubey]

It was time for not just Tom Landry to go, but also Gil Brandt and Tex Schramm. All three had lost some or a lot of their edge, though Landry was still a good coach. Brandt spent most of the 1980's in a downward spiral.

At some level, every Cowboys who understood football knew this had to happen. What is unfortunate is the way it happened-- how Tom discovered he was being fired. He should have been given the option of resigning or retiring.

His knowledge of the division alone should have been reason to keep him on as a consultant of some kind as some kind of golden parachute. Instead they burned bridges and alienated fans; some forever.

The worst result was Tom and Tex being entered into the ROH posthumously.

[ravidubey]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I don't think the game passed Landry by, I agree we had some bust we also had guys like Sherrad that who got injured as well as Irvin. I'm confident that Landry would have taken Aikman based on seeing Tom meet Troy at the 50 yard line at the cotton bowl after the UCLA and Ark was over which is not something you would normally see from NFL HC and all speculation at that time was Dallas was going to get Troy in the upcoming draft. I understood why Jones wanted to go in a different direction so I never held that against him but I do not believe the game passed Landry by

Landry would never have traded Herschel Walker and Brandt didn't have a clue how to rebuild the team. Schramm had become irrelevant.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by parchy

The reason I think he would have been fine is because he fired Hackett, whose wide-open offensive schemes never meshed with his, and Tom had finally agreed to give up on the Flex before he was fired. They would have scooted those linemen up a little bit and moved into a base 4-3, which would have made up a couple of points each game in itself. I think he would have been fine had Jerry decided to keep him on board, but oh well. Three Super Bowls later and we're free to discuss this without bitterness, I suppose.

I agree. I looked at it as if this guys is going to spend this many millions to buy a ball club then he should put people around him he trusted and that is what Jerry did. Now the other group beside Jerry that was looking into buying the Cowboys was a Japanese group and I could not deal with America's team being owned by a Japanese group of investors. At that time the Japanese’s were buying up a lot of things in the US, thank god the Cowboys were not added to that list

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by ravidubey

Landry would never have traded Herschel Walker and Brandt didn't have a clue how to rebuild the team. Schramm had become irrelevant.

I guess we will never know, your entitled to that opinion but I don't know if that would have been the case considering what the Vikes were offering.

[ravidubey]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I guess we will never know, your entitled to that opinion but I don't know if that would have been the case considering what the Vikes were offering.

Landry was quoted after the trade as saying he had no idea how the Cowboys could trade a player like Hershel Walker. Landry was also surprised that the Cowboys management had decided to rebuild via the draft. Of course we know how critical both that trade and the draft were in creating the Cowboys of the 1990's.

Now it could be Landry resented Jones and Johnson and was inclined to criticize anything they did, but that is what he said.

Still, you are right, we will never know, but I suspect we'd have been waiting a long time.