Opinion: How long to Giants meltdown? - Dallas Cowboys Forum

wileedog · 09-24-2006

SInce the end of last season, with Buress and the normally sanguine Tiki basically calling out the Giants coaching staff after the playoff loss, I've been wondering if this team could keep it together. Especially when I saw their early schedule this year and how tough it is compared to last years cakewalk (complete with extra home game)

I present to you the evidence:

1. Tom Coughlin He's already completely lost teams before because of his draconian ways. While many compare him to Parcells because he is so hard on players, I think there is a fundamental difference. Bill will bend the rules for certain players, and Bill makes it a point to connect with his guys, so the punishment is often more motivation than pain.

Coughlin has always been a "by the book" guy, If the book says you get fined for being 10 seconds late to a meeting, you get fined. He never has developed the chemistry with his players that Bill has, and he could be in danger of losing another one....

2. Jeremy Shockey. He is a bigger, whiter TO. Same talent level, same sense of entitlement. He is convinced the ball should go to him on every play, and has read his own press clippings like a monk studies the Bible.

He's also not afraid to speak his mind (what little of it is actually functional). In fact after the game today he flat out stated the Giants were "outcoached". He has been shown on national TV on several occasions physically calling out Eli for not throwing him the ball in both the Philly and Seattle games. How long before his big mouth turns completely on young Eli. How long before he throws him and Coughlin under the bus for the fact that Shockey has largely been a non-factor this season? How does Eli and Couhglin respond?

3. Plexico Buress. The Steelers let him walk depiste being 6'5" and loaded with talent. Why? The answer is tied closely to the reasons he was flat out benched for over a half today despite nothing being physically wrong with him and the team desperately needing a playmaker out there.

Buress has been outspoken before. He willfully skipped the teams final team meeting last year after the playoff loss because he was so disappointed in the coaching staff. It is clear that Coughlin is certainly not on Burress' CHristmas Card list right now, and the benching today will probably not serve as a motivational factor.

So the question is, with the Giants at 1-2. and really with any sense of reality they should have been 0-3 without an Eagles choke, how soon before the meltdown?

stilltheguru · 09-24-2006

2. Jeremy Shockey. He is a bigger, whiter TO. Same talent level, same sense of entitlement. He is convinced the ball should go to him on every play, and has read his own press clippings like a monk studies the Bible.

lol at bigger whiter.

wierdo

ghst187 · 09-24-2006

I think they'll be okay, they'll regroup and make a run...
Its a long season. They are exactly where most expected them to be right now...1-2. They aren't going to play many more teams any tougher than Indy and Seattle at Seattle. Jax maybe....but they are actually aren't all that far off the track..its just that their key players are punks and/or babies. That'll always be a problem for them.

tomson75 · 09-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by wileedog

2. Jeremy Shockey. He is a bigger, whiter TO. Same talent level, same sense of entitlement. He is convinced the ball should go to him on every play, and has read his own press clippings like a monk studies the Bible.

ummmmm.....no.

wileedog · 09-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghst187

I think they'll be okay, they'll regroup and make a run...
Its a long season. They are exactly where most expected them to be right now...1-2. They aren't going to play many more teams any tougher than Indy and Seattle at Seattle. Jax maybe....but they are actually aren't all that far off the track..its just that their key players are punks and/or babies. That'll always be a problem for them.

On track?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2601690

Pretty sure your Pro Bowl TE calling out your coach is not where you want to be 3 weeks into the season.

Coughlin may have already lost this team. Just a matter of when it shows.

wileedog · 09-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomson75

ummmmm.....no.

You give Shockey TOs dedication to his body and take away his propensity for beer and the night life and I think he is a game changer.

On TO's level? Maybe not, but he's a TE not a WR. And on pure talent he is second to Gonzalez in this league. And yes I am incuding Witten in that. Witten is better because he does work out and play hardnosed the way he is supposed to, but I think Shockey would be marginally better if he wasn't a complete knucklehead.

Da Hammer · 09-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by wileedog

SInce the end of last season, with Buress and the normally sanguine Tiki basically calling out the Giants coaching staff after the playoff loss, I've been wondering if this team could keep it together. Especially when I saw their early schedule this year and how tough it is compared to last years cakewalk (complete with extra home game)

I present to you the evidence:

1. Tom Coughlin He's already completely lost teams before because of his draconian ways. While many compare him to Parcells because he is so hard on players, I think there is a fundamental difference. Bill will bend the rules for certain players, and Bill makes it a point to connect with his guys, so the punishment is often more motivation than pain.

[View Full Quote]

tomson75 · 09-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by wileedog

You give Shockey TOs dedication to his body and take away his propensity for beer and the night life and I think he is a game changer.

On TO's level? Maybe not, but he's a TE not a WR. And on pure talent he is second to Gonzalez in this league. And yes I am incuding Witten in that. Witten is better because because he does work out and play hardnosed the way he is supposed to, but I think Shockey would be marginally better if he wasn't a complete knucklehead.

I never said he wasn't talented. He's just not on TO's talent level regardless of position considerations. While he may be more talented than Witten, i'm not taking him over Witten. Honestly, when i think of talented tight ends now, I'm thinking about the young guys like Winslow and Davis. Those guys have more "talent" than Shockey, but have yet to do much with it (although Winslow had a big game today). Shockey isn't even considered if i'm shopping for a TE.

Rampage · 09-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomson75

ummmmm.....no.

dude shockey drops more passes then he catches. he's a whiner. i love how today he ran his mouth when eli missed him. but on the 1st play for the giants shockey drops 1

percyhoward · 09-24-2006

Quote:

He is a bigger, whiter TO

That tears it...

wileedog · 09-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomson75

I never said he wasn't talented. He's just not on TO's talent level regardless of position considerations. While he may be more talented than Witten, i'm not taking him over Witten. Honestly, when i think of talented tight ends now, I'm thinking about the young guys like Winslow and Davis. Those guys have more "talent" than Shockey, but have yet to do much with it (although Winslow had a big game today). Shockey isn't even considered if i'm shopping for a TE.

Meh, just disagree. I think Shockey's lifestyle and attitude are holding him back. That and an innacurate QB,

In the potential department, he's a better Witten. I don't think he'll ever realize that, nor do I think that potential is equal to a Gonzelez, or what Winslow and Davis may grade out better eventually. But the latter still have a low to prove.

Either way I don't think his contributions so far this year match his mouth over them.

ZeroClub · 09-25-2006

In 2003, the Giants quit on Jim Fassel. Sure, it could happen again.

CrazyCowboy · 09-25-2006

Love him some him.,.....

lspain1 · 09-25-2006

I don't think the Giants quit. They are dangerous, even though they have an impossible schedule this season. I admit they are hard to figure out right now. We'll have to wait and see but I don't see them coming apart.

Hoov · 09-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by lspain1

I don't think the Giants quit. They are dangerous, even though they have an impossible schedule this season. I admit they are hard to figure out right now. We'll have to wait and see but I don't see them coming apart.

watched the game against seattle. I have never seen an nfl teams wr's so wide open again and again. It's not like it was a case of a very talented wr beating coverage and having a great night, it was several wr's. every TD pass, there was no one within 10-15 feet of the guy catching the ball. watching guys run the simplest pattern and finding hugh holes in coverage.

on offense, how many false starts and oline penalties did the giants have ? and tiki has yet to run for a score. Eli can air it out but also throws a lot of pics. Burress benched in the game for attitude problems and lack of effort. shockey always seems to be hurt and does drop way to many passes.

I really dont see any bright spots on this team.