McShay Talks on Ginn and other WR's... - Dallas Cowboys Forum

HardHittingRoy31 · 04-11-2007

Slow-healing Ginn underwhelming in workout

Ohio State WR/RS Ted Ginn Jr. was finally able to perform for NFL scouts on Wednesday, just 17 days prior to the 2007 draft (April 28-29). For starters, Ginn participated only in the 40-yard dash and position drills, which means NFL teams have no shuttle times or leaping results to record on him.

He ran three 40-yard dash attempts in the 4.4-second range (4.41, 4.45 and 4.49). Those are good times for most but hardly to the world-class standards Ginn was expected to achieve. For comparison purposes, Ohio State's No. 4 receiver, Roy Hall, was timed by some scouts in the high 4.3-second range during last month's pro day -- and Hall is 6-foot-2 and 229 pounds.

It's important to note that trainers claim Ginn's foot injury is only 75-percent healed at the moment. While it helps explain his unspectacular 40 times, it does not ease concerns regarding his durability issues. Doctors expect Ginn to return to full form in the near future, but NFL teams are understandably worried about his recovery time. After all, he suffered the injury celebrating a touchdown return in the national championship game more than three months ago. The 5-foot-11, 178-pound receiver caught the ball well in drills, but he noticeably began to favor his foot midway through the session.

As always, it's important to put these workouts in perspective. It doesn't take much game-tape to diagnose Ginn Jr. as one of the fastest players in the class when he's 100-percent healthy. On the flipside, it doesn't take much time in the film room to recognize his weaknesses as a receiver, which includes inconsistent focus, poor route-running skills and a general lack of toughness. With that in mind, Wednesday's workout in Columbus could not have done much to sway scouts' opinions one way or the other. Still, it's safe to say Ginn was underwhelming.

Now that all the information is in, here's how I rank the top-10 wide receivers in the 2007 draft class:

1. Calvin Johnson, Georgia Tech -- Most talented athlete in this year's draft.
2. Dwayne Bowe, LSU -- Didn't run especially well, but a steal if he slips to the bottom half of Round 1.
3. Ted Ginn Jr., Ohio State -- Overrated receiver but explosive return ability makes up for it.
4. Robert Meachem, Tennessee -- Second-round receiver on film; 4.3 speed gets him drafted late in the first.
5. Dwayne Jarrett, USC -- Better prospect than Mike Williams (Lions) but still will disappoint in the NFL due to poor separation skills.
6. Steve Smith, USC -- Underrated talent; should be a good No. 2 or great No. 3 WR in the NFL.
7. Anthony Gonzalez, Ohio State -- Better pure receiver (hands, routes and toughness) than Ginn Jr.
8. Sidney Rice, South Carolina -- First-round height, athleticism and leaping ability, but Day 2 burst and strength.
9. Craig Davis, LSU -- Tremendous athleticism and speed but questionable toughness.
10. Jason Hill, Washington State -- Third-round prospect, will get over-drafted due to excellent 40-time.

[FONT=Helvetica]Conduct policy fallout[/FONT]

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell delivered the message loud and clear on Tuesday, when he released the league's new personal conduct policy shortly after announcing the suspensions of Tennessee CB/RS Adam "Pacman" Jones for the 2007 season and Cincinnati WR Chris Henry for eight games.

Although it hasn't always appeared to be the case, all 32 NFL teams annually perform extensive background checks on each potential draft prospect. Some teams simply weigh their findings more heavily than others. However, with Goodell putting the issue of conduct on center stage, personnel departments across the league are expected to be more cautious than ever when it comes to drafting players with red flags on character.

Cal RB Marshawn Lynch, Florida DE Jarvis Moss, UNLV CB Eric Wright, Miami S Brandon Meriweather and Florida DT Marcus Thomas are some of the most talented prospects anticipated to pay the price in April's draft.

With Henry gone for half of the regular season, Cincinnati should be forced to alter its draft plans slightly. The Bengals still boast one of the league's top receiver tandems in Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh, which combined for 2,450 yards and 16 touchdowns on 177 receptions in 2006. But the suspension to Henry and the free-agency departure of Kelley Washington leaves the Bengals with serious depth issues at the position. The team's most pressing needs are still on the defensive side of the ball, particularly at cornerback, defensive tackle and outside linebacker. However, it must now consider using a Day 1 choice on a potential No. 3 receiver such as LSU's Craig Davis (second round) or East Carolina's Aundrae Allison (third round) instead of drafting a defensive prospect with that pick.

Jones' year-long suspension will have an even greater impact on the Titans, who are already faced with relatively pressing needs at wide receiver, running back and defensive line. Signing Nick Harper gives the Titans the No. 2 cornerback they needed at the beginning of the offseason. They also have quality depth at the position with Reynaldo Hill, Andre Woolfolk, Cortland Finnegan and Michael Waddell. Only problem is they no longer have a No. 1 corner opposite Harper. Making matters worse, Jones' suspension and the free-agency departure of Bobby Wade (Vikings) leaves the Titans without their top two return specialists from 2006.
Tennessee has 10 picks in the upcoming draft, including five in the first 128 selections overall. The team would ideally like to spend its first-round pick (No. 19) on a cornerback like Darrelle Revis (Pittsburgh) or a wide receiver like Ginn Jr. who can double as a return man -- but that's expecting too much from a rookie. Interestingly enough, the Bengals at No. 18 overall could steal one of the Titans' targeted players one pick earlier. Regardless, don't be surprised if Tennessee adds an experienced returner via free agency or trade, in addition to using a Day 2 draft on a return specialist such as Kansas State's Yamon Figurs.

The Bears must prepare for life without DT Tank Johnson, whose suspension is expected to be announced once he's finished serving a four-month jail sentence for violating probation in a 2005 gun case. Lance Briggs' threats of a season-long holdout only make matters worse.

Even if they fail to unload Briggs in a pre-draft or draft-day trade, the Bears can't expect the disgruntled outside linebacker to be part of their future. With those two scenarios in mind, the defending NFC champs suddenly are faced with some pressing needs to address. In addition to those concerns at defensive tackle and outside linebacker, Chicago would be wise target a pass-catching tight end and depth at wide receiver in the upcoming draft. With just one pick at the bottom of each of the first four rounds, GM Jerry Angelo does not realistically have enough ammunition to solve all his team's personnel issues in this year's draft.

Scouts Inc.'s Top 32

RANK NAME POS CLASS SCHOOL PREV
01. Calvin Johnson WR JR Georgia Tech 1
02. JaMarcus Russell QB JR LSU 3
03. Adrian Peterson RB JR Oklahoma 4
04. Joe Thomas OT SR Wisconsin 2
05. Laron Landry S SR LSU 6
06. Gaines Adams DE SR Clemson 7
07. Brady Quinn QB SR Notre Dame 5
08. Levi BrownOTSRPenn State8
09. Leon Hall CB SR Michigan 19
10. Amobi Okoye DT SR Louisville 9
11. Patrick Willis ILB SR Mississippi 11
12. Alan Branch DT JR Michigan 13
13. Jamaal Anderson DE JR Arkansas 12
14. Adam Carriker DE SR Nebraska 14
15. Darrelle Revis DC JR Pittsburgh 25
16. Dwayne Bowe WR SR LSU 22
17. Marshawn Lynch RB JR Cal 15
18. Greg Olsen TE JR Miami-FL 16
19. Jarvis Moss DE JR Florida 18
20. Joe Staley OT SR Central Michigan 31
21. Lawrence Timmons OLB JR Florida State 19
22. Ryan Kalil C SR USC 27
23. Ted Ginn Jr. WR JR Ohio State 20
24. Aaron Ross DC SR Texas 21
25. Paul Posluszny OLB SR Penn State 17
26. Robert Meachem WR JR Tennessee 28
27. Michael Griffin DS SR Texas 29
28. Justin Harrell DT SR Tennessee 26
29. Reggie Nelson DS JR Florida NR
30. Chris Houston DC JR Arkansas 30
31. Dwayne Jarrett WR JR USC 24
32. John Beason OLB JR Miami-Fl 23

Scouts Inc. watches games, breaks down film and studies football from all angles for ESPN Insider.

burmafrd · 04-12-2007

McShay shows his ignorance as regards Ginn when he claims teams are worried about his slow recovery. High ankle sprains, which is what Ginn had, take a long time to fully recover- and it varies person to person. The TEAMs know that. Now you can question whether the guy is tough enough, or good enough receiver, but the ankle thing is just plain dumb. When you see something that blatantly WRONG, you question just how knowledgeable the guy is about football.

CrazyCowboy · 04-12-2007

We should get a very good player for sure........

CIWhitefish · 04-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

McShay shows his ignorance as regards Ginn when he claims teams are worried about his slow recovery. High ankle sprains, which is what Ginn had, take a long time to fully recover- and it varies person to person. The TEAMs know that. Now you can question whether the guy is tough enough, or good enough receiver, but the ankle thing is just plain dumb. When you see something that blatantly WRONG, you question just how knowledgeable the guy is about football.

I thought his injury was a sprained foot, not a high ankle sprain. Could be wrong...

CATCH17 · 04-12-2007

Quote:

He ran three 40-yard dash attempts in the 4.4-second range (4.41, 4.45 and 4.49). Those are good times for most but hardly to the world-class standards Ginn was expected to achieve. For comparison purposes, Ohio State's No. 4 receiver, Roy Hall, was timed by some scouts in the high 4.3-second range during last month's pro day -- and Hall is 6-foot-2 and 229 pounds.

I bet him or anyone else on that team wouldnt stand a chance against him in a 100 yard dash.

Ginns a blazer but im not to sure how good his agent is for letting him run with a jacked up foot.

Chocolate Lab · 04-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

McShay shows his ignorance as regards Ginn when he claims teams are worried about his slow recovery. High ankle sprains, which is what Ginn had, take a long time to fully recover- and it varies person to person. The TEAMs know that. Now you can question whether the guy is tough enough, or good enough receiver, but the ankle thing is just plain dumb. When you see something that blatantly WRONG, you question just how knowledgeable the guy is about football.

No doubt. The fact that the #4 guy beat Ginn's time doesn't show any deficiency in Ginn; it shows how meaningless the test is.

JonJon · 04-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH17

I bet him or anyone else on that team wouldnt stand a chance against him in a 100 yard dash.

Ginns a blazer but im not to sure how good his agent is for letting him run with a jacked up foot.

[FONT=Tahoma]Maybe his agent is a Cowboys fan???

The more I watch film on Ginn, the more and more I want him as a Cowboy. He is a phenominal athlete and an immediate impact player on special teams and as a slot WR. When he is at 100%, teams would HAVE to account for him, the same way teams have to account for Bush. As of right now, Bush is underacheiving as a pure RB, but still doing damage on the field. I view Ginn in the mold. He may not be the pure WR option or even a #1, but get the ball in his hands with screens and reverses and watch out.
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Hoofbite · 04-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CIWhitefish

I thought his injury was a sprained foot, not a high ankle sprain. Could be wrong...

It was just a sprained foot.

Chuck 54 · 04-12-2007

I think people should quit worrying about Gin's 40 time and stop praising his true speed. The bottom line is you are foolish to take a WR in the first round when the guy is clearly NOT a top receiver.

He is not a polished receiver...he's not tough...he doesn't run good routes, which also includes reading defenses and defenders, and he's no where near ready to play WR in the NFL.

Why draft a fast runner/special teams guy in round 1?

Let's face it...as great as Devin Hestor turned out as a return man, would you spend a first round draft pick on him???

I wouldn't.

I'd take Bowe, Jarrett, or Meacham ahead of Gin, JR because I want a #1 or #2 receiver, not a return man, and the guy who becomes one of your starting WR's is not going to be returning kicks or punts when he's starting anyway. So those who want him to return kicks while learning the position are basically saying spend pick #22 on a special teams guy and hope he can start at WR one day as an impact receiver, at which time he won't be a return man anymore....too many if's for me.

Chuck 54 · 04-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdub2k4

[FONT=Tahoma]Maybe his agent is a Cowboys fan???

The more I watch film on Ginn, the more and more I want him as a Cowboy. He is a phenominal athlete and an immediate impact player on special teams and as a slot WR. When he is at 100%, teams would HAVE to account for him, the same way teams have to account for Bush. As of right now, Bush is underacheiving as a pure RB, but still doing damage on the field. I view Ginn in the mold. He may not be the pure WR option or even a #1, but get the ball in his hands with screens and reverses and watch out.
[/FONT]

Bush is 10 times tougher than Gin, Jr.

You can't compare them....Gin is a WR, so he's always accounted for with a CB....but if he's not a good receiver, he's not a guy teams will worry much about other than screens, reverses, and fly patterns.

I don't want to spend a first round pick on someone like that...Bush may not be a power back or a strong NFL runner between the tackles yet, but he doesn't go down with an arm or a push, and he's durable.

burmafrd · 04-12-2007

I keep reading where it was described as a high ankle sprain; though any foot injury can take a while to heal. He did not seem to have any injury problems in college.

THUMPER · 04-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne_motley

I think people should quit worrying about Gin's 40 time and stop praising his true speed. The bottom line is you are foolish to take a WR in the first round when the guy is clearly NOT a top receiver.

He is not a polished receiver...he's not tough...he doesn't run good routes, which also includes reading defenses and defenders, and he's no where near ready to play WR in the NFL.

Why draft a fast runner/special teams guy in round 1?

Let's face it...as great as Devin Hestor turned out as a return man, would you spend a first round draft pick on him???

I wouldn't.

[View Full Quote]

Very well put, I agree.

Phrozen Phil · 04-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne_motley

I think people should quit worrying about Gin's 40 time and stop praising his true speed. The bottom line is you are foolish to take a WR in the first round when the guy is clearly NOT a top receiver.

He is not a polished receiver...he's not tough...he doesn't run good routes, which also includes reading defenses and defenders, and he's no where near ready to play WR in the NFL.

Why draft a fast runner/special teams guy in round 1?

Let's face it...as great as Devin Hestor turned out as a return man, would you spend a first round draft pick on him???

I wouldn't.

[View Full Quote]

I agree. I watched the videos of Ginn's runbacks and while he has terrific speed as a returner, he's not likely the type of receiver that can withstand the kind of punishment at the NFL level. I watched a few Ohio State games and we should also give credit to good coaching and first class blocking he received. He did break a few tackles in those games, but he wasn't great on his routes. I could be wrong, but I'm thinking he's going to get whalloped a few times by guys with NFL speed. He's going to have a more difficult time breaking tackles at the next level.

burmafrd · 04-12-2007

I saw Ginn take some reall lumps on returns and such. I find it hard to believe that the first time he gets hit by a NFL player he is going to break in two.

Phrozen Phil · 04-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

I saw Ginn take some reall lumps on returns and such. I find it hard to believe that the first time he gets hit by a NFL player he is going to break in two.

I don't think that he'll break. I do think he might find it tougher to get free from some of these fairly sophisticated and quite physical special teams schemes.