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5 To Know: Broaddus Takes A Look At Top Offensive Linemen

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by RS12, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    He's not an elite prospect because he isn't athletic enough for that.

    He is a very smart guy who is a Kyle Kozier type.

    On tape he gets pushed back a fair bit. Maybe that's injury issues or maybe he lacks a bit of strength but seeing him next to Warmack you notice a severe difference in power and explosion. Warmack looks like Larry Allen with how he moves people. Barrett is more of a technician. But he is still quite effective.
  2. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Yup.

    There is a ZBS like Cincy which had a handful of really big guys in it and they drive block the others like Denver where its smaller guys who cut block every friggin down.
  3. tm1119

    tm1119 Well-Known Member

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    What games were you watching where Warack struggled? Kid was dominant in every aspect for Alabama. And he would absolutely work at LG, what are you seeing that says otherwise. He's plenty mobile. Maybe not the degree of Cooper, but there is also an almost 40 lb weight difference between the 2.
  4. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    I understand the zone system well. I played with both schemes and coached both. I would call it the opposite of power football. One reason is that small linemen are usually used and they do more blocking by walling off and creating lanes rather than driving the dlineman backwards. A 295lb guard is not going to move a 330lb DT. I call that 295lb lineman getting in the DTs way, finesse. Physical, smashmouth football is ramming the ball down the defenses throats by drive blocking.
  5. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    The 90's Cowboys used zone concepts with the big guys. It worked quite well. I just don't want to see a line with sub-300lb linemen. I don't think Dallas really knows which they are going to run. They haven't drafted enough linemen to know what direction they are going. I do think any system that eliminates Warmack, Warford or Fluker as prospects is not a power based blocking system.
  6. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    His lateral movement is not great. He doesn't really set up and pass block that well.

    I understand that you don't agree. That's fine. We will see how he gets marked and go from there I guess.

    I don't see him as a LG. He's a RG IMO. I mean, I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm just saying that I don't see him as a 1st round all everything OL. I think he's a RG and that position doesn't carry the value of a LG or T.
  7. rags747

    rags747 Active Member

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    I want NASTY please, this team currently has a ZERO rating on the NASTY meter, has been this way for a long time now.
  8. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    The size of the lineman is irrelevant in regards to ZBS concepts. What most ZBS teams look for are quickness. Something big Fluker type guys don't have, but that doesn't mean that all big burly lineman can't play in a ZBS. They can weight 340 and be perfectly fine in a ZBS if they can move quickly within 10 yards.

    I think Warmack would fit fine in a ZBS and he'd still get to roadgrade people.

    I do agree though, we don't currently have anyone that fits ideally into a ZBS other than Tyron Smith (and possibly Costa?).

    I don't care what scheme we run, but we need upgrades in talent on the OL either way.
  9. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    Also, we ran power, smashmouth football fine back in the 90's with a 255 lb center. I know players have gotten bigger since then, but 255 lbs was extremely small even then.

    Smaller guys CAN drive back bigger guys is they are good, explosive players and have good technique.

    Which we don't have (regardless of size).

    Cooper is PLENTY big enough to play in any scheme, and he just so happens to have excellent quickness.
    :hammer:

    If for some reason Fluker dropped to the 2nd round, I'd draft him in a heartbeat.

    Even if we took an OL in the first.
  10. rags747

    rags747 Active Member

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    Yes our Mary Jane loving center was small but very effective, Nate was 300+ as was Tunei and Big E. Trying to recall our other guard prior to Allen. All I know is that come 2nd half of games our OL imposed its will on defenses, I can still hear Madden raving about it now. We need two OL starters from this draft, throw them in from day 1 and let them start. No way a 1st and 2nd rounder is not better than what we currently have. In all honesty I think we are in for a tough year.
  11. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    The center that Dallas had in the 90s was flanked by massive guards and he was a one in a million center that could block bigger guys at his weight. There hasn't been a center since him that was able to block as he did.

    As to Cooper, I have seen his playing weight as low as 280lbs. If that article is true, it is a wasted draft pick IMO. There are already concerns about Cooper's power. I don't care how good he is pulling on screens or getting to the second level when blocks can't be made at the first level. I figure the combine will answer some questions.
  12. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    There are different zone schemes as you know. The traditional zone blocking like Denver used to run or the Texans currently run, uses small quick linemen. The zone blocking with the big guys usually have some man blocking components. The key is to have the power when it is needed and use it as a strength. If the Cowboys are going with the smaller guys, I think it is a huge mistake. The power is not there if needed in a pure zone with the 290lb guards. This team has been bad in red zone rushing TDs for a while. It has been a while since they had good big guys that could get the push at the LOS.
  13. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    Again, it doesn't matter if they are "Smaller guys" if they have talent and are nasty.

    Avoiding a player due to his size would be an even bigger mistake (within reason of course).

    If you're trying to suggest the cowboys stay away from Cooper cuz he's "too small" then I'd have to disagree with you completely. That dude has PLENTY of size and is very talented. Not my first choice at guard, but I'd still throw a party if we drafted him.
  14. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    If Cooper's playing weight is 280lbs, I want no part of him. A good big man is always better than a good small man, at least that's the way I see it. If Cooper weighs 310-320lbs as other sites have listed, that is much better. The combine should answer his weight and strength issues.
  15. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    I agree with that. 280 is definitely a bit too light for my taste.

    295+ and I'm fine with him though.
  16. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    There were claims that Tyron Smith would weigh in under 290 but his combine weight was actually 307.

    NFLDS lists Cooper at 310 lbs

    Scouts Inc. lists Cooper at 320 lbs

    The UNC roster listed him at 295 in 2011 and 2012. It's common for team rosters to not get updated.

    I believe that he will weigh in around 310 lbs.

    David Arkin weighed in at 300 lbs. Here are some pics of Cooper and Arkin:

    [IMG]

    [IMG]
  17. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    The book on Smith was that he did some things, prior to the draft and after the NCAA season that allowed him to put on weight. He gained a lot of weight in a very short period of time. It can be done but only in a certain window.
  18. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    The point of the pics is that Cooper is probably over 300 lbs now.
  19. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure looks it doesn't he?
  20. lwehlers

    lwehlers Well-Known Member

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    i do not see any of these players drafted by the cowboys. jones will continue down the same path he always has. trying to find low round picks and think that they will become starters and then watch tony romos career end without a chance for a playoff run.

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