Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by RS12, Feb 5, 2013.
At this stage, I'd prefer Cooper.
I really wish Cooper would have played in the Senior Bowl.
I didn't watch any UNC football this year.
The difference between Smith and Cooper is age.
Tyron is so young and had a such wide frame that no one really cared he was light. Getting to 307 placed him as the top OL prospect to never play LT.
But everyone knew he'd grow.
I just need to see Cooper play. I don't see much in the way of DL talent on opposing teams he faced in 2012. An almost absurdly soft OOC combined with a weak collection from the ACC.
Cooper just turned 23.
I live in Carolina and watch plenty of UNC football. Cooper is a stud. Perfect player for Callahan's system.
UNC has produced plenty of talent the last few years and Cooper will add to that list.
If we can't trade back a few spots, I would still take him at #18. Immediate starter at LG.
Chance Warmack has played exclusively at the left guard position for his college team, for the NFL team that drafts him, I believe he will be an excellent RG because his limits of lateral agility will not allow him at LG. Less valuable position in First Rd
Johnathan Cooper has the ability to play LG and play it at an extremely high level with a nasty temperament. Think Sean Lee payback on Golden Tate with no hesitation.
Barrett Jones has more talent than these two, more mentally into the game(revenge is a dish best served cold) and can play across the board at equal or better levels than the previous two after one year in an NFL weight training environment IMO. You should probably also consider he can also be the best LT on the team. Caveat Emptor this Lisfranc injury will not allow him to strut his stuff at the combine, will have no base to push off with that foot. If he has rehabbed like normal he has had no weight on the foot for over a month so expect an average combine. A recent comparison is Chance and Cooper are similar to Tyron Smith, and Jones is JJ Watts(before we knew his true talent). Hard to go wrong with Smith, and you have to ask yourself is it worth a pick for Watts, either pick is not glamorous for Jerry Jones?
Mac, I agree with most of your posts, more than most other posts around here; however, this one, IMO, is way off base.
Barrett Jones has more talent than Cooper or Warmack?
I don't see that at all.
I see Warmack and Cooper as similar to NFL players like Carl Nicks and Jahri Evans; whereas, I see Barrett Jones as Kyle Kosier.
Cooper has more power and athleticism than Jones. If Cooper was 6-5 instead of 6-3, he would be an LT, IMO.
Warmack has some agility limitations; however, he probably has room to lose some weight and improve in that area; whereas, Jones' athletic limitations will not improve as he gains weight in the NFL. Warmack was listed at 322; however, Fluker was listed a 335 but weighed in at 355 at the Senior Bowl. I think Warmack played at something well over 330. If you look at him on the sidelines when he is near Jesse Williams (listed at 320 lbs), one of those listings has to be way off. There is no way that those 2 players were within 2 lbs of each other.
I think Barrett Jones will measure-in with an arm length that is too short to project to OT.
IMO, Barrett Jones biggest value was his readiness to play early (day-1); however, now with the surgery for the Lisfranc injury, that is in doubt.
I'm not sure I understand the JJ Watt comparison. Watt was a freak athlete with huge upside. His 3-cone is in the complete Freak area for a 6-5, 290 lbs player. There are many CBs with slower 3-cone times.
40 Yrd Dash: 4.81
20 Yrd Dash: 2.71
10 Yrd Dash: 1.64
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 34
Vertical Jump: 37
Broad Jump: 10'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.21
3-Cone Drill: 6.88
I need to go back and review some game footage of Barrett Jones. I think kept a few Alabama games on TIVO.
I agree. Jones got his reputation from playing several positions well at the college level. He is not great at any one position in college. He sure doesn't have the talent to make a great NFL lineman. He will make a good steady player for some team like Kosier. Like Kosier, I think lack of power will be an issue. Center may end up being his best position in the pros IMO. I don't think he will ever be much more than just a solid player. You hope for more than a solid player in the pros with a first round pick.
You guys are just going off this years film on Jones, he was all american guard last year, and all american tackle the year before.
I agree JJ Watts is a freak but he was not when it was time to choose between T Smith and him(we knew Watts was good), I agree I am over the top on this kid, I have watched him excel at every position so I am telling you he does not have any give up or lack of talent, Cooper and Warmack are strong at their given positions, Jones can play their position better or equal. Last year I had this same notion about Donta Hightower who was drafted with the patriots so my history is sketchy at best. My opinion is that Jones after a year in the weight room will be the best lineman on the cowboys Oline and at any position you want to compare other than TE. This all hinges on that lisfranc injury fully healing. I also promise I have not been drinking.
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I don't dislike Barrett Jones. I would be OK with the Cowboys drafting him in the 2nd round; however, I maintain that he does not and is doubtful to ever have the ability of Cooper or Warmack.
I have seen him in multiple games at LT in 2011 as well as most or all of the 2012 games at Center. I don't really remember how he looked in 2010 at OG.
2012 - Center
2011 - LT
2010 - Guard
He was great in college because he combined good, not great, but good physical ability with well above average mental awareness and technique.
In the NFL, his mental awareness/technique will not be better than everyone else. He is going to have to compete on his physical ability, which, like I said, is good but not great.
A "year in the weight room" is not going to give him the quickness of Cooper or the power of Warmack. If fact, more weight could decrease his quickness; whereas, Warmack could probably lose some weight and get a little quicker.
I'd take Cooper in the 2nd round which is a very real possibility....
I think Jones best position in the NFL would be Center; and there I think he could be very good. I agree his physical limitations would be much more clear at Guard and frankly at tackle he would not be that good at all.
Definition of real possibility: 0.1 percent chance or anything above Zero.
We all agree Jones is good, I just disagree as to how good. Thanks for keeping the conversations sane and open. Warmack great RG, Cooper great LG, Jones in my opinion is on the same tier. Let me take that back, if the injury is over with that Lisfranc break then he is on the same tier. He is the guy who stands up to the QB and takes responsibility for the Oline, something lacking on the team these days. OK I am officially off my soapbox and ready to debate these safeties that everyone is so high on this year. Vaccarro yikes, I like him less than Barron from last year. New thread I know.
Lane Johnson 4.6-4.8 at combine means someone drops to our menu position at 18 that was not available before this forty time was posted.
Barrett Jones is a good player but is very much like Kozier.
He outsmarts guys. He is nimble and uses good technique but he just wins versus dominates. Go watch him play in and play out this year and he just does enough while Warmack and Fluker destroy people.
I agree the injury situation makes this very difficult. Because we don't know how he would compare to those two guys if fully healthy.
We do know he is very unlikely to get bigger or stronger because Bama players almost never do. They are maxed out in that program. When you draft them you draft a finished product. They have learned technique and been in world class strength and agility programs. Guys who played there 4 years and didn't come via JUCO have very little upside left.
Just wanted to revisit this thread.
6-2, 311 lbs
Bench: 35 reps
Cooper is high on my list for us in the first.
getting a high number on the bench is not that hard for guys with shorter arms