A Serious Question Regarding Offensive Line Issue

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Verdict, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. Verdict

    Verdict Well-Known Member

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    I am directing this question to everyone on this board, but specifically to the guys who have studied the offensive line in great detail, including the all 22 film.

    If we were to stand pat on the offensive line this year, and all of the guys on the line were healthy,(which was far from the case last year) assuming Parnell replaces Free .....how much improvement could we expect over last year simply due to having healthy players?

    Assuming Free is cut, and Parnell is penciled in pre-draft as the starter, which do you think would improve the offensive line more:

    A) one of the top 2 guards or
    b) one of the top 3 offensive tackles?
  2. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    As bad as Free was, I think the biggest problem with the OL has been a lack of push in the run game, and the fact that the guards and center get pushed back into Tony's face. I think Parnell can be solid, so my priority would be guard.
  3. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

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    I want Warmack; but if cooper can really play well at center that would be good as well.

    We need 2 new better players in the middle of the line at least.

    3 JAGs are never going to be very good no matter how long they play together
  4. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    I saw enough from Parnell to believe he could be a quality starter, so I'd rather just give him competition for the job than bring in a first-round pick.

    All of our "starting" interior players have warts, so it would be best to upgrade one of those spots and let the others fight it out for the other spot.

    Plus, I doubt we can get one of the top 3 offensive tackles. (The first two will be off the board within the first five picks.) We stand a good chance of getting one of the top 2 guards.
  5. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

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    I think OT is the more important position which doesn't say the interior isn't important as well.

    There is a lot of Free sucks posters on the board just like there were Kosier sucks yada. I looked at some of the all22 but not all. He is not bad all the time but is inconsistent. Enough to be a problem. There have been comments from those that should know about his hands for two years now. And his technique which I think goes back to his hands.

    At times he is getting beat inside, outside and bull rushed. So it's not his feet and getting beat outside with speed. It's everything at times.

    I have no idea what they are going to do with him.
  6. Idgit

    Idgit If you food, you gonna be ate. Staff Member

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    I think the problem last season was mostly that we had three players who were all playing sub-par football at times (in some cases, all times) in a row on the OL. RT, RG, and C were all compromised to one degree or another.

    Sticking to the OP's premise, I think the team expects it's got an upgrade already on the roster at C. Listening to Jerry, though, Costa's not a guy they think can cover up for limited play at OG. I think it's reasonable to expect Parnell to improve slightly with another season, especially if he's the starter and gets the starters' reps during the week. I think sitting pat at RG would be a mistake and keep us in what's basically just a slightly better position than we were in last year along that side of the line.

    I don't think Livings and Smith were realistically much of the problem, and I'd sit tight with both of them at this point.

    If I had to pick only one spot to upgrade, It'd be RG, with the idea that it would cover up for the limitations at C, and that Tony handles pressure off the edge really well, generally. We'll play more 12 sets next year, too, so we'll have TEs to chip if we really have to. Of the OGs out there, I'd go with Cooper in the first and not look back, unless one of the premium DTs are available to us (and then, only if we do end up losing Spencer). I do think we'd do just fine plugging in a 2nd round OG starter, too, if it's the right guy.

    I'd cut Free and backup Parnell with a VFA. I know that's not what was asked, but I think it probably needs to be done if we can get a deal done at the right price-point.
  7. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Cook was generally fine as a protector and pretty bad at getting to the second level on combo blocks. Free was Rob Pettiti in several games. He just played so bad you can't win. He played better later. But at 7 mm he was one of the worst in the league. Parnell. Was jus okay but was improving. Livings was pretty good outside of geno Atkins. Bern was better later but I would not count on him as much more than a backup. Costa never really played. Tyron was not very good as a pass protector compared to other top 10 picks. He was a very good run blocker. I'd like to see a cheap free agent blocking tight end. We lost a lot of big runs in the difference in Marty b and Phillips as a blocker. Vickers was nothing special.

    We have to have another tackle just from a numbers perspective. We have a myriad of choices for a backup interior guys cook, bern kowalski maybe arkin maybe costa. I'd like to see Brandon Moore here. He is a good player he's relatively cheap. Out of costa kowalski cook and bern there should be a competent center. I'd like to see Dallas Thomas, armstead or menalik watson here as a draft pick in the second.
  8. ThrowuptheXDez88

    ThrowuptheXDez88 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, Romo is so good at stepping up that the RT position did hurt, but what was killing us was when Mackenzie B. & Livings would get run plum over & Romo would have no place to escape the pressure. I am thinking all 5 of the elite prospects on the offensive line will be drafted before our 18th pick, it would be nice if we were able to extend Romo before the 12th & could make a run at Andy Levitre, which would fix at least 1 hole.
  9. StanleySpadowski

    StanleySpadowski Active Member

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    Most of the line problems started with the center. What Cook did was admirable but he wasn't very good. His problems with the cadence also played a huge role in the tackles either false starting or being late off the snap which lead to Free's confidence getting rattled but even so, Free ended the year slightly higher than Smith in my gradings.

    Bernadeau played better at center than at guard but Cook was a better option than Dockery so he played there.

    Livings tailed off at the end of the season but with his surgery, I think we know why as his knee got progressively worse.

    Parnell's play really surprised me. He was almost as good as either of the other two tackles.

    Dallas' biggest need is at guard but not necassarily a starting guard just anyone who gives them the flexibility to slide players around and keep Dockery off the team. The only thing I can think of was that Holland let himself go again.

    There's a lot of ifs with the current OL roster, If Smith can step up his game, if Free is closer to weeks 15-17 than weeks 8-10, if Costa and Livings can get through a season healthy, if Bernadeau can fire off at guard like he can at center....

    I'd also add I that I was wrong about the impact losing Bennett had. I feel he was overrated as a blocker but Phillips and Hanna were next to awful so he was missed. Witten had a particularly bad year himself.

    Most people won't want to hear this but next year's OL is going to look very similar to last year's projected starters unless someone too good to pass up drops to them in the draft or Free is let go for cap purposes. I would wager that a blocking TE and a RB are going to be the offensive picks in the draft and probably rightfully so.

    But it's not going to matter unless the defense starts forcing turnovers.
  10. Woods

    Woods Well-Known Member

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    I think you're correct concerning a blocking TE. I'd bet Garrett really tries to get one this year, whether FA or the Draft.
  11. jjktkk

    jjktkk Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    What a great thread! No Jerry bashing, but instead, a good discusiion on ways the Oline can improve.
  12. john van brocklin

    john van brocklin Captain Comeback

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    Yep and thats why it only has 11 post to date. LOL

    I guess fans want to vent, and who can blame them ?
  13. Idgit

    Idgit If you food, you gonna be ate. Staff Member

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    It is a good thread, though.
  14. Oh_Canada

    Oh_Canada Well-Known Member

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    I am thinking a guard because Parnell can be protected somewhat and Romo has problems with inside pressure. I'm not as down on Livings as some, in fact I think he was better than average until he started to labour with the knee issue. Bernardeau on the other hand might be better off at center so a replacment for him in the form of Warmack or Cooper might actually improve two areas as Costa will have healthy competition in the middle.
    They will need to bring in a tackle regardless as they are woefully thin at that position...but it doesn't have to be a high pick.
  15. SkinsandTerps

    SkinsandTerps Redskins Forever

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    Simple answer... the line is nothing special aside from maybe your young Tackle.

    Even a mediocre line can look good if they are coached properly and the playcalls fit with what they do best...look at the Redskins as a good example. A better one (aside from Saturday) is the former Colts OL.
  16. Nation

    Nation Well-Known Member

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    Question 1: I think with no changes but health that we'd be in the 16-20 range for our line as opposed to being one of the 5 worst. But that's a best case scenario.

    Question 2: In there interest of offensive line improvement I'd take one of the top 3 offensive tackles with all things being equal, just a much more valuable position.
  17. Macnalty

    Macnalty Well-Known Member

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    I agree it is nothing special and Smith has yet to really shine, that is good for contract negotiations(on Smith) but sucks being Tony. My take is the center was the pivot point last year while Cook did admiral work it was not good enough, a stronger center makes the two guards better. I for one do not feel good about a player with a bad back(Costa), too often this seems to be a chronic condition. We can choose to leave it as the elephant in the room(along with a certain Achilles tendon) but think of your own experiences with back problems within your social circles. Very few walk away with no other incidents with their backs. Most likely within your circle there are no NFL centers who job demand violent hits and one on one clashes weekly.
  18. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

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    The idea behind a pocket is that if there is pressure from the ends the QB SHOULD be able to step up.

    Problem with that for the boys is that there has BEEN NO POCKET for 2 YEARS.

  19. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    despite all the sunshine pumping in this thread, the reality is we have a HORRID OL

    we need at least 2 new starters, maybe 3
    1 person (Bern) will have to change position to even have a chance to succeed and we have no idea how he will do with this
    this all is assuming the LT and RT that sort of showed something improve


    so when people say, they just have to play together, that is a house of cards
  20. Woods

    Woods Well-Known Member

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    Here's what I think WILL happen with our OL going into the new season,

    1. T Smith and Livings remain at their spots most likely

    2. The team tries to play Costa at OC. I think a lot depends on Costa's back injury, etc.

    3. We upgrade Bern at RG. I think this will be the move we make in FA/Draft.

    4. I think Parnell likely plays RT.

    5. Bern will now be the top back-up at OG (and he will compete at OC against Costa as well during TC). And we have Cook to provide decent depth too.

    To me, the biggest question marks in the above scenario are if Costa is 100% healthy. And secondly, the plan at RT to bring in depth/competition for Parnell.

    What I would do is bring in a good OG in FA, then in the draft I get another versatile OG/OC player. Whether it's a guy like Cooper who can possibly play OC too and provide competition for Livings, or quite possibly I draft an OC in the 3rd or 4th round. As for OT depth, unless Free takes a big haircut on this comp, I cut him and bring in some veteran depth.

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