Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Cowboy Brian, Apr 2, 2012.
Don't believe it. He's a 4.5+ guy. Closer to 4.6 than 4.5. He does long stride so he can get behind people. He doesn't look as fast as he's actually running but still not sub 4.4.
Apparently he showed up 30 plus lbs lighter for his pro day than he played at. Thn there is also this
I think his biggest hurdle is convincing teams he will keep the weight off after they pay him.
First I'm not much on 40 times although I don't dismiss them either. You should probably add at least .05 to these hand held times on Pro days. And these guys are training hard with their 40s now and do get them down by working on their start. I've seen the guy play for awhile now and he's no burner. OTOH, he's not slow either. He's a big, tall, long stride guy who can be knocked off his routes. He's also great in the red zone and manages to burn a lot of guys. Really physical corners who jam him create problems for him but he still manages to make some plays even on these guys. He's not a dominating big WR like Fitzpatrick or Megatron but he's a pretty damn good big WR who's worth a 20-40 pick. JMO.
I watched him all 3 years. Not a 4.45 guy. Maybe 4.55 on a good day.
I think he has the best ball skills of any WR in this draft. Great hands. Can track over the shoulder. Great at getting the ball at its highest point. Will go over the middle. Will bully smaller CB.
Can be lazy. Can get out of shape. Wants to win on Saturdays but not sure about work ethic Mon - Fri.
After Blackmon, he is the best WR in this draft. Alshon's ball skills are 2nd to none in this draft.
I haven't seen enough of the WRs to say he has the best ball skills but he has very good ball skills and wins a lot of battles for the ball. I agree with what you're saying completely o/w.
Disagree with that. Blackmon isn't even the consensus number 1 anymore. He's not going top 5 like everyone thinks. I'd take Michael Floyd and Kendall Wright over Blackmon and Jeffrey. Jeffrey couldnt separate in college and is going to have even more problems in nfl.
Now that is funny. If Blackmon slips past Minnesota and Cleveland, he'll be gone at #6. Not much slipping. Hard to say that he's not the consensus #1 WR when there won't be another WR taken within 10 spots of him. Floyd's body of work shouldn't allow him to move up. Now that Al Davis is dead, I have to think there isn't a GM stupid enough to go after a guy simply because of his measurables (which would be the case). Wright is a great college receiver, but how many guys with his size/speed have become really good #1 WRs in the NFL over the last 15/20 years? Not many. I think he'll end up being a damn fine #3 but that's about it.
To me, Jeffery has all the tools to be a #1 WR in the NFL, but he's doesn't have the mental toughness to work hard enough day in and day out. The fact that he had to lose so much weight to get his times down to a respectable speed means that he won't even get the work done when it could mean millions of dollars to him. The NFL teams don't fall for the weight shift stuff like they used to after getting burned countless times. This is the worst WR draft in quite a while and Blackmon is without question the best of this thin crop.
David Harrell - Pokes
Do you read any scouts or do u just hear or listen to what guys on tv say? Because you are dead wrong. This is def not a weak WR class. Maybe a weak tight end class, weak safety class but not wide receiver. I read and listen to a lot of the top guys in the business. A lot of guys are finally coming around to admitting Michael Floyd is the better player after watching more film. Would you like me to show you articles from knowledgable people? And to dismiss Kendall wright obviously shows u know nothing about football nor did you watch any Baylor games. Guys is a straight baller and is most explosive playmaker at any position in draft. A LOT faster then he times. Watch game footage and see seperation he gets from corners. Blackmon is a lesser mans dez Bryant
You are going to be in for a wake up call when Blackmon drops past 7. Lot of scouts say possibly as far as 15. No receiver is going to be drafted within 10 spots??? Huh. Good chance Floyd will get drafted before him and Wright will be gone middle of 1st. U are clearly sipping the kool aid from people like McGay and Kiper. Not people that really know how scouts view players
Read that article. Show u everything u said is completely wrong including 'weak receiver class', 'Blackmon is clearly best receiver'
couldn't seperate from whom?
I'd wager I've watched more of these three guys (Blackmon, Wright, and Jeffrey) than you have. Considering I've missed attending a grand total of 5 OSU games the last 4 years home/road/bowl but haven't missed watching any OSU game either in person or on TV since the late 90s. I record every Big 12 game that I can't watch live and I've several friends that are big SC fans so I hear and see so much of them that you would think I was a fan.
Wright is fast, but he's also tiny. He's not a cross the middle guy. If he goes between the hashes it is deep down field. He does make good adjustment to the ball, but I simply don't think he'll translate into a great player in the NFL. I think he could have moments of greatness, but I see him being similar to Devon Hester as a WR.
As for who I listen to and who I read, none of this comes from the normal talking heads. I will say that players and their college coaches tend to have a pretty good idea where they will end up (IE, OSU insiders knew that Dez was 90% likely to be drafted by the Cowboys.) There are just too many interviews for those guys to not know. As of right now, Blackmon will not slide past 6. Could that change? Of course it could, but it isn't likely to. There is also a better than 50% chance the Weeden goes in first round.
When I compare this WR draft to previous years: Lets just look at the last 10 years:
2003 - had 3 first round WRs including monumental bust Charles Rogers. But also had Andre Johnson, Bryant Johnson, and Anquan Boldin along with several other guys that have had some really good years. This year had 37 WRs drafted.
2004 - 7 first round WRs - 31 WRs drafted - biggest names today - Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans, Bernard Berrian
2005 - 6 first round WRs - 31 WRs drafted - biggest names today - Braylon Edwards, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson
2006 - 1 first round WR - 34 WRs drafted - biggest names today - Santonio Holmes, Devon Hester, Greg Jennings, Brad Smith, Marques Colston
2007 - 6 first round WR - 34 WRs drafted - biggest names today - Megatron, Tedd Ginn Jr., Dwayne Bowe, Robert Meachem, Sidney Rice, Steve Smith (Giants), James Jones, Laurent Robinson, Jacoby Jones, Steve Breaston
2008 - no first rounders - 35 WRs drafted - biggest names today - Jordy Nelson, DeSean Jackson, Mario Manningham
2009 - 6 first round WRs - 33 WRs drafted - biggest names today - Darrius Heyward-Bey, Michael Crabtree, Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, Mike Wallace, Johnny Knox
2010 - 2 first round WRs - 27 WRs drafted - biggest names today - Dez Bryant, Golden Tate, Demaryius Thomas
2011 - 3 first round WRs - 29 WRs drafted - biggest names today - AJ Green, Julio Jones, Jonathon Baldwin, Greg Little
Realizing that it WR is one of if not the least likely position for guys to play at a high level in the first couple years, it is hard to evaluate 2010 and 2011. The shortened off season in 2011 didn't help.
So based off these numbers and the players over these years I'd rank these classes like this:
1 - 2007
2 - 2004
3 - 2003
4 - 2009
5 - 2011
6 - 2005
7 - 2006
8 - 2010
9 - 2008
Personally, I would put this 2012 class in the #7 slot and push '06, '10, and '08 down. That isn't a good WR draft in my view. But of course it will be easier to tell in 5 years when we see who flops and who is on track to do great.
David Harrell - Pokes
Your entitled to your opinion no doubt. But many are coming onboard the Michael Floyd bandwagon. Mayock is even saying now he likes Floyd better. Reports out of Notre Dame pro day today say he is a top 10 pick after his workout.
I don't disagree with you about Brandon Weeden. Severely underrated. Not a doubt in my mind he is at least the 4th best qb in this draft. He should be 1st round pick despite age.
But to say Kendall Wright is a #3 receiver or a Devin Hester type of receiver is a joke. That makes you almost lose all credibility. I haven't heard one person say anything close to resembling that.
You know for a fact Blackmon is going top 6? Do you want to bet on it? That is FAR from what I've heard. Your a little bit of a homer man. I respect Blackmon and think he is a very good player. But probably the 3rd best receiver in this STRONG class
I'll admit I'm a complete homer, but that doesn't make me wrong. However, you have to know that Mayock has one real blind spot on his analysis and that is ND players. He's paid by the Notre Dame network and he sees them all the time. Yet even he didn't have Floyd as a first round pick until the combine.
As for my thoughts on Wright, I don't think he's a bad player at all. The guy was really good. But he's a little guy. Unless he's Steve Smith (the good one), I don't think he can be a #1 WR in this league. I could be wrong, but I just don't think he's going to be much of a player in the NFL where he'll be outsized by every corner he plays against. He still hasn't run a shallow crossing pattern in years so nobody knows if he's a going to be able to be tough enough to do it. He has some really huge question marks. I put Wright and Broyles in similar categories but having success in different ways neither of which I see translating to NFL success.
I don't do internet wagers as they never amount to anything. However do you really think there is much movement of draft boards in NFL offices like there are by draftniks? A guy can move around some, but unless he does something that is just unexpected (good or bad) they are pretty much locked in. Blackmon has been locked in at around #5 in the draft give or take a couple picks since the season ended. There hasn't been any football played since then and every single WR that is up for discussion hasn't had additional film study on them (except perhaps for Floyd who they are wondering why he was a mediocre college WR). Remember that the talking heads out there have to have something to talk about. If there is no movement, there is no discussion. It is like Rivals and Scout making changes to the star ratings of kids in the last couple months prior to National Signing Day. They get more subscriptions and generate a lot more interest.
For the most part you can't read too much into the hoopla following the combine. QBs and DT are generally the only positions where teams lose their freaking minds and start making large reaches.
David Harrell - Pokes
Michael Floyd has yet to prove he is in the same league as Blackmon.
I don't think Blackmon is as good as Floyd outside the numbers but it way better than Floyd across the middle and with RAC. I'd rather have Blackmon unless I was Buffalo or maybe Minnesota where my other good receiver (Stevie Johnson) does alot of what Blackmon does.
I could not disagree more about Broyles and Adams. Both guys know how to find holes in zones and you can't be physical with receivers past 5 yards anymore. Both guys should be fine. Victor Cruz a little guy that runs a 4.5, caught more than 1,500 yards worth of passes last year. Welker, Amendola, Steve Smith of USC, Stokely, Lance Moore, Garcon lots of small receivers with good quickness are successful now.
Blackmon is also better at doing the little things like blocking.
As for the little guys, I didn't say that they couldn't be successful. What I said was that they very rarely are a team's #1 WR. Welker has been amazing over his career as has Steve Smith (Carolina). You do have some others that are able to play but generally speaking, are not game breakers. Victor Cruz isn't a 6'5" behemoth, but he is 6' and over 200 pounds. So I wouldn't put him in the small category like Broyles and Wright. Broyles has another negative going for him, and that is that OU WRs always disappoint in the NFL. Sure Mark Clayton (another small guy) has had a long career, but he has never played like a first round pick. I would wager that if the Ravens knew what kind of player he would be, they wouldn't have drafted him in the first round.
I'm a believer that when a college program turns out disappointing player after disappointing player at set positions in the NFL, that it is very likely that the next player at that position will not be good either. Case in point, RB from Penn State. Penn State has turned out a lot of first round running backs over the years and with the exception of 1.5 seasons of Larry Johnson, they have all sucked dating all the way back to Curt Warner and Franco Harris. The next time that a RB comes out of the PS program as a high draft pick, the odds are better that he will bust than have success. There seems to be a few of these. WRs from OU, OL and WRs from Texas, etc.
David Harrell - Pokes
I don't expect my 3-5th round slot receiver punt returner to be a good #1 for me. I'd expect Adams or Broyles to be a good 3 or a decent 2 depending where they go. I'd also expect them to help special teams.
Clayton was a good player with some awful qb play until injuries caught up with him. He was a #2 receiver and never had size to be much more. I will agree the routes that Wright ran last year are not the same as Broyles, Adams or a Welker. Those 10 yard inside routes translate better than the 40 yard stuff unless he is as explosive as Santana Moss or Steve Smith. I'm not sure he is quite that fast. I think he is a good #2.
Ur funny. Floyd has had suspect qb play, blackmon has had one of best qbs in nation. Blackmon has went against sorry pass defenses in big 12 where no one plays pass d. Anytime he went against a decent corner like when he played Leonard Johnson he struggled doing anything more then 5 yard passes. We will just have to wait and see