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An Example of Garrett's Playcall

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Bluestang, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    So let me guess... is the run option any good in this particular scenario? Do you think this play-call fooled anybody or was everybody actually taken into account be the defense, and it was just a case of beating the man underneath with Witten?

    Are you telling us that Witten is the underneath option on plenty of the Cowboy plays?

    I mean people pick the dumbest plays to actually try and prove their point...
  2. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    32 post is a run off tackle to the right. With the corners playing tight coverage it's about 50-50.

    Witten's route call is actually an option based on the coverage of the LB. As the LB is playing inside leverage, meaning - he's not giving up the inside, this gives Witten the outside to break free from the LB.

    Play calling is not really about "fooling" people but rather putting a defender "in conflict" with a decision.

    Since the defense is in a cover 2, the vertical route by KO will clear the safety and the corner allowing Witten to get separation on his route as he breaks for the sideline since the LB is playing inside leverage technique.

    The LB "in conflict" covering Witten has could play outside leverage to negate the route breaking to the outside but Witten would read this on pre-snap and would run a hitch to negate the LB's outside leverage technique.

    That is putting the defender "in conflict". There is no right choice to make and either decision would be the wrong one technically.


    Always has been, and always will be. Do you really think Witten is a deep threat?

    This play was an example of how player execution doomed the playcall.

    And as others have said not only did Garrett give Romo deep threat options but he also had underneath options to pick up the first down.
  3. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    good thread Bluestang
  4. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    Was the point that Garrett runs the Coryell system? I thought we knew that.

    Not trying to be a jerk, just genuinely curious as to what point you were wanting to get across.
  5. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    The point(s) were:
    (as you seem to miss with every post of mine which I don't find to be mere coincidence despite your "curiousity")

    1. It's a Coryell based system

    2. There is a run/pass option and the QB is given the freedom to choose the best play on the defense's coverage.

    3. In short yardage scenario's there are deep routes and short ones.

    4. Player execution is paramount to play calling success, always has been and always will be.
  6. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    I still fail to see your point...

    1.

    It was 2nd and one so to act like this somehow doomed the playcall is another example of blind Garrett homerism. Did the next play result in a first down because Garrett called a beautiful play? wait a minute... Remember, the very next play was 3rd and 1, the same amount of yardarge, where they could have easily gone run or pass as well.


    2.

    The defense took into account every single player on the field. It is not like the defense was actually fooled by the play-call, so to act like Garrett made some sort of brilliant playcall is just blind homerism. The Cowboys were set-up in run formation, Romo audibled at the line, the LB followed Witten out to defend him.

    3.

    The defense, as is evident in their formation, was primarily interested in taking away the deep ball. So in essence what you claim as a great example of playcalling is essentially what teams have been giving to the Cowboys and which ultimatel fails in not getting into the endzone. That's how teams have been defending the Cowboys all year long and since Garrett's been in charge.

    They were content in putting their LB on Witten in man-to-man coverage and play it from there, knowing they were close to the first down, especially considering also the Cowboys only had a yard to go.

    4.

    The issue has nothing to do with deep options, the issue has to do with who is the primary target in that play. How do you know the deep play was even an option, considering the Giants were playing run, to which Romo audibled out of? Do you think they were threatened by play-action from shot-gun when Romo obviously audibled out of what would have been a DRAW, considering the formation. So essentially the defense knew pass from the very beginning... So kindly explain to me how that formation created a threat of a run, where the defense was fooled?


    5.

    Of course Garrett has some calls that employ underneath routes, and nobody questions this point. I can just as well find countless plays where Garrett runs his men out on deep patterns, only to have defenses blitz and have Romo get killed because he's waiting for these long-developing pass plays to actually come to fruition. He doesn't attack the seams of the defense either, especially on his first or second reads.

    6.

    I could have told you from the very beginning Romo placed the ball a little too far. Do you really think that this 'analysis' somehow means Garrett knows what he is doing.. Let us assume that was the greatest call to ever be made in a football game that Romo just blew for the sake of argument, how does that absolve Garrett for all his crappy play calling?
  7. brooksey1

    brooksey1 Well-Known Member

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    This is the proof of the bad play calling. It is 2nd and 1 at the 19 yd line with 1:40 on the clock and we check out of the run and go to a sideline pass to pick up the first and do what? Stop the clock? It makes no sense to send in a play with a kill the run /pass option. THIS IS THE PROBLEM! This is situation football, send the run only in and play the 32 dive to run the clock down under 1 minute.

    JG has to stop trying to run only against pass defenses and pass only against the run defense. He is letting the opposing defenses dictate the play calling.
  8. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    It's a really good thread.

    I can't speak for Bluestang, but I don't know that I'd even reply to this, since you're missing the point of the thread badly by trying to pretend it has anything to do with vindicating anyone.

    It's just a nice, singular, example of what our coach tried to do in a single play call, when you hear the call in advance and have the luxury of seeing the routes develop. It's an informative post, about x's and o's and not a means of pushing any agendas.

    The play wasn't even successful. And, no, that's not a hidden jab at Tony Romo.
  9. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    3rd and 1 was an incomplete pass to KO, who had the pass hit him in the hands BTW and would have been a TD.


    Can you show me an example of a defense not accounting for every player on the field?

    Garrett made a standard call for what the Giants generally play on defense - cover 2.

    If you haven't noticed all NFL defenses are geared towards to taking the deep ball away first and foremost.

    Why on earth would you want to let an offense take a deep ball shot on you?

    The LB that covered Witten couldn't defend him 1v1 all day - as evidenced by his stats.


    And even though the defense knew the pass was coming after the audible, the LB still couldn't cover Witten 1v1.

    Just like we scored 24 points on them after going no huddle and passing the ball on them.


    Please provide proof on this.


    Peyton Manning ran about a handful of plays his entire time with the Colts. That team was the book on how to execute every play down after down.

    Take the time and read this:

    http://smartfootball.com/offense/peyton-manning-and-tom-moores-indianapolis-colts-offense
  10. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    Hit him in the hand, with the defender having good position. So essentially the pass option for Romo on the first read was to take a shot at the end-zone, right? So explain to me why the first read on the pass option was Kevin Ogletree on a deep pass play, a guy Ogletree couldn't beat a single man coverage and is plain sucking up the joint?

    So what's your point than if it was a standard call?

    First of all, DCs normally state the objective is to take away the threat of the run, because if the threat of the run is no longer there, than it opens up the passing game. Those safeties in two-deep will be forced to cheat up, if the offense keeps moving the ball. Secondly, what part of teams normally defending the Cowboys with two-deep safeties do you not understand? The Cowboys aren;t scoring and their red-zone production keeps declining.

    Notice the key-words NO-HUDDLE, aka Romo calling the shots, not Jason Garrett. So what was Witten doing before they went no-huddle?

    please provide proof of long-developing pass plays with the Cowboys, that cause Romo to be sacked? What, you want me to pay for the All-22 to re-run tape for you to see what is obvious? you think I'm getting paid for this. How about you go back to the thread against the Eagles and see where I pointed it out and then you can determine it from the tape, which play I'm exactly talking about as proof that this happens...

    And the bread and butter of Peyton Manning's offense is play-action football, unlike Garrett's and further, getting the ball out quickly. So even if they run a 'handful' of plays, their handful of plays are based upon keeping the defense off guard. We run play-action honestly, probably twice a game. And Peyton Mannings offenses, if you pay attention, target the seams a hell of a lot during the game, which Garrett's offense doesn't in any way whatsoever.

    But that has nothing to do with the point, which is, even if we assume this was the greatest call in the history of the league, how does it absolve Garrett from his atrocious play-calling, as is evidence by the fact the red-zone production is getting worse and worse and we can't put the ball in the end-zone. I guess Romo just keeps over-throwing everybody right?

    So congratulations for providing an example where Romo overthrew Witten on one-play, as somehow demonstrating Garrett is a 'great coach'...
  11. Nexx

    Nexx Well-Known Member

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    i agree but on this particular play they are in the red zone. getting the first is imperative imho. another instance where simplifying the offense in this area of the field might have been better. just call a run, get the first down then you can tinker on first down.
  12. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    KO had every opportunity to make the play. Let's also not forget that the flag was thrown by the sideline judge and then mysteriously picked up without any explanation.

    Witten was doubled by the S and LB, and in that same initial 2 deep look that the Giants were in once the S rotated inside to help bracket Witten, KO had the 1v1 matchup.

    As far KO being targeted, well you'd have to ask Romo why he decided to go that way.


    See post 45.

    I never claimed that this was the greatest of all plays, you just inserted those words into my mouth on your own.


    Running the ball has had it's issues, but as AdamJT13 will say it certainly does not correlate to winning.

    Yes teams are playing cover 2 looks to avoid giving the offense the big play over the top. The underneath stuff is open and they are allowing us to dink and dunk our way up the field and relying on the offense to make a mistake.

    Turnovers have been the biggest problem, followed by wrong routes, poor routes, and talent at the wide reciever position.


    You do realize that these situations are practiced during the week right, just like they were practiced in training camp?

    They are plays selected when the coaches put together the gameplans.


    So just to be clear you don't want to provide a single shred of evidence of your argument because your not getting paid?


    6 PA passes vs NYG, 3 in the 1st qtr, 3 in the 3rd qtr. Game plan was scrapped after all the TOs in the 1st, once we got the lead back in the 3rd they went back into the game plan until the Jones fumble required us to score a TD to win the game. After all that we lost by a few fingers out of bounds on a hail mary catch.

    2 PA passes vs ATL, early in the game. Played behind a lead for most of the game.

    4 PA passes VS PHI, all through out the game.

    I could break it down for you further but you wouldn't get the point because your mind it already set to believe that Garrett is the problem.

    There's my evidence free of charge. :)
  13. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal Insulin Beware

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    I would like to know how option routes work in this offense.
  14. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    The route runner with the option is going to read the leverage the defender is going to play and then basically counter it with the appropriate route.

    Witten is mainly that guy, just because he's the most trust worthy guy that the QB can rely on.
  15. e41dalasfan

    e41dalasfan New Member

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    Depends , if we score to quickly has our defense rested enough? did we leave enough time on the clock for the other team to score? How many times has this happened this year? With all the penalties and turnovers we have a running play is a safe bet ...Also we let the defense dictate what we do too much...Like someone else said9 out of10 times all a defense has to do is line in a formation that will make us change play because they know that we will ...If garrett is such a gunius why can't he draw up a running play to get a single yard??
  16. e41dalasfan

    e41dalasfan New Member

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    We can also have an incomplete pass and drop ...Or an incomplete pass and an interception...true story
  17. Gameover

    Gameover Well-Known Member

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    Typical inaccurate throw from Romo.I'm sure his pass would've been on target with a better offensive line!

    Does anybody have video of Romo's overthrown pass to Hanna?

    Worst thrown ball I've seen in my life.

    How about the overthrow to Dez from the Eagles game?
  18. e41dalasfan

    e41dalasfan New Member

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    Exactly...how many times do we leave too much time on the clock, and lose because the other team drives down the field and scores...And your probably right ...Coach probably says line up so they pass the ball that way if they do score we will have enough time to score also
  19. jobberone

    jobberone Save the Snow Leopard Staff Member

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    I have started an article about the vertical offense but I'm rather busy lately so its coming together slowly. Hopefully I can write it well enough for some to understand the concepts. I'm not going to get into it here and steal my own thunder but here are some basic tenants.

    First the offense is designed to make the defense cover the entire field. It is timing meaning the WR needs to be where he's supposed to be and on time. Third is the routes are meant to not play into what the defense wants but to take advantage of how the defense plays. So each route has a tree. Some vertical offenses are extremely intricate and require a huge playbook, a very cerebral QB and WRs who are on the same page and also pretty damn smart. An example is Martz's offense. Some have less tree options and reads and the playbook is smaller. An example is Turner's offense. Another tenant of the vertical offense is to take advantage of your players abilities and don't ask them to do things they aren't the best at. You can't ask Witten to play the same game Winslow did. There's a lot more but again it can wait a week or three.

    If you can't understand what Bluestang is saying then I encourage you to read about the vertical offense. It won't make you an OC but at least you will have a very basic understanding of what the offense is doing and give you the understanding that its not designed for any particular receiver to run one specific route. You don't just say you go long Dez and you get open Witten.
  20. e41dalasfan

    e41dalasfan New Member

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    So running would've benn a mistake??

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