An Example of Garrett's Playcall

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Bluestang, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    I'm go to req-quote for you, since you snipped it out of your 'response', words from the guy who originated this very thread:

    Let's not also forget that this thread was titled "Example of Garrett's playcall".
  2. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal Insulin Beware

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    I guess my question is best summarized by the following points:

    • Is the option receiver(s) determined by play, formation or overall offensive design (in otherwords, is Witten the ONLY option route all game and a decision made during the week, or is it a function of play call)?
    • Are there multiple options, 2, 3, 4, etc.?
    • If it is a function of playcall, how is it communicated in this terminology.
  3. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    The option route is determined by the defensive alignment and what techniques defenders are playing.

    Witten is mostly the guy that runs them but the WRs will also run them at times. You could technically call "hot reads" as an option route too but I don't because it's usually something that is a sight adjustment at the LOS between the QB and the receiver when they face a blitz pre-snap. The way I see an option route is that on post-snap the QB is reading the defender as the play unfolds and sees his technique/leverage and so is the receiver and they both make the same read to throw the ball to the open window and the receiver stems his route to the same window.

    It should also be mentioned that during the gameplan install/meetings/practices during the week the players and coaches will review every possible scenario that could present the option routes with each play call.

    Multiple options could exist but the more you put in the more at risk you become will player execution being an issue.

    There isn't any real special communication in the play call but this is where the film review/meetings/practices play a big part in the receiver and the QB reading the opposing defense. When they see a certain defensive look or tendency they will rely on their study in the film room and practices throughout the week to run the correct option route.
  4. Idgit

    Idgit If you food, you gonna be ate. Staff Member

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    Both of those quotes are accurate, and neither helps you make your point.
  5. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    As opposed to other offenses that have routes that are meant to play into the what the defense wants?

    This seems like a basic tenet of any offense.
  6. e41dalasfan

    e41dalasfan New Member

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    Just seemed like we are wasting a whole lot of time disecting a pass play that should have been a run play to begin with...In my opinion
  7. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    What "ingredients" do you feel are missing?

    There seems to be a perception around here that Garrett has a superior scheme, but the players just aren't executing it.

    Well, if that is the case, it ceases to be a superior scheme. A good coach should be able to adapt what he wants to do to the strengths and weaknesses of his team. That is one thing that separates average coaches from great ones.

    Garrett is going to have a learning curve as a head coach. He hasn't had the seasoning he needed before getting the head job. And, the performance on the field has reflected that. I think one of the things he'll need to learn is that he can't be so inflexible.....he'll need to adapt from series to series, quarter to quarter, game to game and season to season. He needs to adapt to the strengths and abilities of the personnel that he has. I'm not sure he is great at that yet.
  8. Doomsay

    Doomsay Well-Known Member

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  9. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    He's the ultimate troll. I have him on ignore but I'm still forced to read his damn posts. I wish you much luck with him Idg!
  10. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    What they failed to mention is that of those 8 attempts, 3 of those were on short yardage 3rd downs (1-2 yds to go) and 1 of those 3 was for a 12 yd gain.

    That means on second and short they've ran the ball 5 times with Jones and converted those into 1st downs too.

    I agree with what they are trying to say though, Jones should get more opportunities in short yardage if he can hold onto the ball.
  11. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

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    If you've talked with others who feel his scheme is superior then ok but I haven't ever said that. I agree you should in a general way maximize your assets and minimize your weaknesses. I have no idea if Garrett does that but I would give him the benefit of the doubt seeing as he has the confidence of some pretty good players past and present as well as other coaches around the league. To me that means a lot more since I have no inside information and neither does 99.9% of the members of this site.

    I will tell you unless you execute this kind of offense then you will spit and sputter and see exactly what we've see so far this year.

    What ingredients does he need? I suspect he wants to run a traditional Coryell/Zampese/Turner/Garrett offense with the following modifications:

    1. He doesn't have a Kellen Winslow. Yes, Witten is superb in this offense but he is not a WR in a TEs body. He can't stretch the field in general. So no it is not a Coryell offense per se. I think he has modified his offense well to fit his TE.

    2. He doesn't have Joiner or Jefferson. We have an oft injured Austin Miles who is not bad but he doesn't have big time speed just pretty good speed. Dez is an off/on switch who creates enough problems for there to be concern. We don't have anyone after that to speak of. So he has to modify the offense to fit these guys except Dez doesn't fit right now because he can't run enough routes properly to be that dependable. I do understand Romo thinks he's getting better. So you can't run timing routes with him dependably so how's he going to modify that to fit a timing offense. The answer is he really can't. Romo just has to be good enough to see him when he does things correctly. Miles can run some horizontal routes like the WCO but there's a big problem.

    3. You have to have an OL that can give you enough time for deep routes to develop. Also, you have to have time for crossing routes as well. So Romo and Garrett are under duress trying to run an offense without the tools to run it.

    4. And finally you have to be able to run the ball. Coryell, Zampese, and Turner used players like Muncie (Gillman used Lincoln), Smith, and Turner. You have to be able to run effectively esp inside to run that offense at optimum. Today you need to be able to run the ball effectively. You have to get the D to play the run some so you can pass and vice versa. If they know you can't run well enough then they'll load up for the pass and if you can't throw certain routes then your hands are tied. You become even more predictable than the offense already is being a timing offense.

    If you're Martz and the greatest show on earth and you don't have a big back and you would just as soon throw the ball anyway then you have a Faulk that can run outside and catch the ball like you can run at least outside. Or you're a Walsh and you don't have a lot to begin with but you have a cerebral QB so you maximize your assets by going more horizontal and run the ball with swing passes and outlet passes.

    I think most here would realize that Garrett can't do a lot with the OL although he seems to be getting a fair amt out of not much IMO. I do think he could use the RBs more like Walsh or Martz but they need to stay healthy and I don't think he's given up on trying to run the ball inside. Teams are loading up on the outlet and swing/sprint passes pretty well.

    Ok, so you say change the offense. And I say to what? What other offense is there and does Garrett have any experience running a different type of offense.

    I'll give you the dead ball penalties to a point. I'll give you some of the execution because parts of that are on the coaches. I'll give you the sideline miscues. I don't know what else to say.

    But I agree at some point you have to think about going in a different direction or double down and give the guy a long term contract thinking he'll get the tools and eventually win a trophy.
  12. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

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    Well, you could be right although I would give Romo the benefit of the doubt. The real problem is not making the play work. Why? Lack of execution which is the Achilles heel of any timing offense. If you want the player and the ball to meet at a particular spot at the same time then things gotta go right.
  13. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    Believe it or not, there are many offenses in the NFL besides the Coryell offense.

    And there are others that Garrett has played in as well, so I don't really buy that he has no experience with other offensive schemes. Does he have experience coordinating others? Not really, but that is the biggest issue with Garrett period. However, I'm not convinced what they ran in 2007 with Sparano was pure Coryell by any stretch.

    Offensive schemes change all the time. Teams will readily admit they steal from each other all the time and are constantly trying to find new offensive wrinkles, not to mention the weekly adaptations for injuries, opponents, etc.

    Sure, those are your options. I'm OK going with a young guy if he shows growth and improvement. However, I'm not convinced the offense hasn't taken a step back from last year.

    Compare him with a guy like Harbaugh and the results are night and day different. Both took over teams viewed as talented but underachieving. Harbaugh took his team to the NFC championship game with much less at the QB position......but he has a lot more experience than Garrett.

    Garrett could very well become a great head coach, but I think he would have better off with another 5-6 years of seasoning under an experienced head coach. His shot may have come too early. We'll see.

    The good thing is that this schedule is very, very favorable down the stretch especially if Roethisberger is out when they play Pittsburgh. If he can avoid the typical December woes and get the offense on track, they have a decent shot at winning the NFC East.
  14. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    Terrell Owens - 81 receptions, 1355 yds, 15 TDs

    The only time they had another WR that even came close to that production was in 2009.

    Miles Austin - 81 receptions, 1320 yds, 11 TDs

    Does anyone not remember when we put in a 3rd round supplemental claim for Josh Gordon?

    This team is looking at WR help, I wouldn't be surprised if they draft one early or go veteran FA.
  15. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

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    We don't run a Coryell offense. I made that clear we have modified it as does most other offenses in the NFL.

    What numerous other offenses, who runs them and what are they? We modify our offense weekly we just have been backed into a corner with our options with this personnel. I will say one thing, which I don't quite understand well, is we seem to be a different team with a different tempo including the no huddle. So there is one thing to look at.

    Comparing him with Harbaugh is apples and oranges. The differences in personnel are pretty great although we do have some advantages. It isn't along the OL, wasn't at ILB, and maybe some other positions. Garrett had to rebuild the OL, retool at ILB, and DB to be short.

    I'm not a Garrett apologist. I'm just calling it like it is. I don't have an agenda re: Garrett. I don't want to change coaches though and I do feel he'll be a very good coach in the near future.

    I have no idea how this team will do down the stretch. I think we will struggle in almost every game we play esp if we don't get turnovers and/or score more.
  16. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    So are you saying the team needs a #1 receiver option?

    I have some concerns about your comment.

    Dallas has invested heavily in their receivers. A first round pick and a guy who signed a pretty major FA deal. If they need to go the well again for yet another option, that would lead one to believe that either those guys aren't really what they are cracked up to be (which points to an issue with talent evaluation) or that Garrett needs (or thinks he needs) overwhelming resources to execute his scheme.

    A quick scan of the top offenses (specifically passing) show quite a few teams that don't have the options in the passing game that Dallas does and are making it work
  17. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    Numerous other offenses that Garrett has experience with or that exist period? I hope the question is the former.

    He played under Payton in NY who runs a hybrid WCO/Coryell. He played briefly for Gruden who was also mainly a WCO. Sparano, who has run a variety of offenses in his career including a spread offense in college. Linehan, whose system seems to be a melting pot of WC, Coryell and spread.

    Like I said, there are tons of different offensive schemes and they change all the time as teams tweak and game plan to try to gain an advantage.

    That's a complaint I have about Garrett. If your scheme isn't working because it doesn't fit the players you have, adapt your scheme.

    What specifically?

    I don't think the Harbaugh comparison is off base at all. Sure, they were stronger in some areas, but Dallas was stronger in others (WR, QB, TE in particular)
  18. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

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    It's not way off base but the situations are just not that equivalent. He didn't have to rebuild his OL. He hasn't had to work with these WRs ie Austin staying dinged up and Dez not having the ability to run routes properly. These are major problems for the team and Garrett
  19. Idgit

    Idgit If you food, you gonna be ate. Staff Member

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    I think the Harbaugh comparison is completely fair. He's done a great job with SF, and he's a great coach. They've definitely outperformed Garrett and the Cowboys so far.
  20. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Garrett's issue isn't scheme, it is execution of said scheme as well as handling play-calling, time mgmt and disciplinary actions all at once.

    I am not sure very many are successful as what Garrett is trying to do and those that are probably have a ton more experience.

    I am not sure a coaching change makes us drastically better. You'd have to give me a lot more data. And I am not sure Garrett won't eventually be a great head coach. I tend to believe he will. But Coaching is a profession where there is absolutely no substitute for hard work and experience.

    On the job training for the Dallas Cowboys really doesn't work.

    Garrett has to be able to yank guys after penalties even if that guy is Jason Witten. He can't be too busy calling the next play. He has to handle clock mgmt much better. Those are not debatable takes imho.

    This team moves the ball well enough and plays solid defense. But it commits too many penalties by far and too many turnovers by far. That is a simply lack of attention to detail. We could blame a bit of that on bad luck but after 30+ games Garrett hasn't reduced those issues at all.

    The good news is we play weaker teams this 2nd half of the season. Weaker teams means we can get away with more mental and execution mistakes.

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