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An Inconvenient truth... well ok 35 of them

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Guli, May 12, 2009.

  1. Guli

    Guli New Member

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    For any anyone that might be laboring under the specious claims of Global warming be advised this post contains actual facts, reading it too quickly could cause brain damage.
    :bang2:


    The following is a summary of the errors in Algore's movie. mostly taken from the article written by Christopher Monckton of Brenchley Oct. 18 2007

    1. Sea level rising 6 meters from the West antarctica or Greenland

    The total sea rise from BOTH masses could be around 2.5 inches
    That is a 10,000 percent error

    2.Pacific islands Drowning

    The National Tidal Facility of Australia show the annual sea level rise over the last 50 years to be equal to the thickness of a human hair.
    Some island are showing damage from dynamiting of the reefs by fishermen.
    In the Maldives data shows sea levels unchanged from 1250 years ago.

    3.Thermohaline circulation "stopping"

    A strengthing since the 1980's has been observed.

    4.CO2 "driving temperature"

    CO2 levels follow Temperature by a margin of 800 to 2800 years. Not the other way round.

    5. Snows of Kilimanjaro "melting"

    The melting of the Furtwangler Glacier at the summit began 125 years ago. More of the glacier had melted before 1936 than after.

    6.Lake Chad "drying up"

    Yes it is and has in 8,500 b.c 5,500 b.c. 1,000 b.c. 100 b.c.

    7.Hurricane Katrina "manmade"

    Katrina was a cat 3 when it landed. The disaster was caused by a 30 years of poor maintenace. The total number of hurricanes and typhoons has been decreasing for thirty years.

    8.Polar Bears "Dying"

    5,000 in 1945 25,000 now

    9. Coral reefs "bleaching'

    Bleaching caused by El Nino all three times.

    10. 100 ppmv of CO2 "melting mile-thick ice"

    Concentrations 180 to 280 ppmv raise temps by 1.2 C

    11.Hurricane Caterina "manmade"

    Caused by unusually COLD air causing a temperature flux

    12 Japanese typhoons "a new record"

    Nope
    typhoons and cyclones down throughout the last 50 years rainfall from cyclones also falling no change in monsoon rainfall.

    13 Hurricanes "getting Stronger"

    Nope
    Not in the last 60 years even tho the use of hydrocarbons has increased 6 fold.

    that is just the first 13 and I am getting hungry and before anyone accuses me of not providing access to the hard data I will post a link and let you read the article in full.

    http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monckton/goreerrors.html

    http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/2009/03/dr-morner-on-sea-level-nonsense.html

    Lest I forget those that have the background in math and or climatology here is the link that explains the stability of the "greenhouse factor"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykgg9m-7FK4&feature=channel_page

    Venting may now begin.
  2. sbark

    sbark Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Hey Hey, your attacking one of the top 5 religions of the Liberals.....they act much like radical muslims when someone is critical of Islam....

    they dont know why they beleive this stuff........they just "beleive".....and they push is down everyone throats more than a Christian Missionary.

    ..........ask Miss Calif Prejean, she didnt even just offer her opinion.....she was asked for it........and she gave an "honorable answer" according to Trump.........salute Trump for not buckling to a "religious faction" of the left.

    Why doesnt the nutwings attack Obama like they did Prejean-----he has given the same answer to the same question as Prejean.....
  3. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Awesome.

    I have been in the hospital and home with a staff infection for the last week ..... glad to see someone picking up the slack.

    ;)
  4. Yeagermeister

    Yeagermeister Active Member

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    That will teach you to lick troll tears. :laugh2:
  5. bbgun

    bbgun Benched

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    Could have been worse. You could have gotten a staph infection. ;)
  6. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Leave me alone ..... I am sick
    Bastag ...... :D
  7. PosterChild

    PosterChild New Member

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    Please post with some protection.
  8. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    Simple:
    "When you stop believing in God you don't believe in nothing.
    You believe in anything."

    J.K.Chesterton.
  9. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    Man made global warming is the biggest hoax perpetrated by a select corrupted few,looking to bring you cap and trade,jacking up every aspect of your monthly energy bill,and you twits still go for it like brainless lemmings.
    WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  10. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    With this article the author was disproving Al Gore, not global warming. There's a huge difference. As I've said in the past, Gore is a loon and his projections are exaggerated. Most people realize this, on both sides of the political spectrum. However, global warming deniers like to point to Gore's claims and just run with the assumption that if he is wrong then all the evidence is also wrong. Just because a conclusion is unsound, that doesn't falsify the evidence.

    Anyway, I'm going to go at this point by point, maybe a few tonight and some more later in the week. I'm not going to defend Al Gore, but rather I'm going to point to the credible evidence. In fact, in the first point, I'll be referring to the same study that the original article does, the IPCC's climate report.

    1. Sea level rising 6 meters from the West antarctica or Greenland

    The total sea rise from BOTH masses could be around 2.5 inches
    That is a 10,000 percent error

    The fact is that, in the IPCC's 2007 Climate Change Assessment Report, they stated the following:

    - Warming of the climate system is unequivocal.
    - Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic (human) greenhouse gas concentrations.
    - The probability that this is caused by natural climatic processes alone is less than 5%.
    - Both past and future anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions will continue to contribute to warming and sea level rise for more than a millennium.

    To combine all three of those points into one sentence...Global warming is happening and there's a 90+% probability that most of it is due to humans; the effect that humans are having (and have had) on the environment will persist for the next 1000+ years.

    Again, this is from the same report that was used to discredit Al Gore. The panel concluded that, during the 21st century, sea levels will probably rise somewhere between 7in and 2ft.

    2.Pacific islands Drowning

    The National Tidal Facility of Australia show the annual sea level rise over the last 50 years to be equal to the thickness of a human hair.
    Some island are showing damage from dynamiting of the reefs by fishermen.

    In the Maldives data shows sea levels unchanged from 1250 years ago.

    Ok, again we are talking about sea level rise.

    We'll talk about the Maldives first and I'll start with this BBC video report, entitled "How Sea Level Rise has Affected the Maldives", it's 3min long.

    http://www.truveo.com/How-sea-level-rise-has-affected-the-Maldives/id/138260882

    The president of the Maldives has even created a plan that would use tourism money to create an investment fund that would eventually allow the Maldivian people to move, en masse, to another country. It's the ultimate protection against the possibility of having their islands gobbled up by rising sea levels.

    As far as using a "mean" sea level rise, it just doesn't make sense. You have to look at the trend.

    [IMG]


    It's not that the study from Australia is wrong in any way, the information is just poorly reported. The people of the Maldives are worried for a reason.

    3.Thermohaline circulation "stopping"

    A strengthing since the 1980's has been observed.

    The point made in the article is true, there's no solid evidence that global warming can cause the oceans "conveyors" to shut down. Still, it can effect circulation, though it's unsure exactly what kind of environmental effects that would follow.

    The next point is a big one to cover, so I'll save that for tomorrow.
  11. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Frankly the IPCC has about as much credibility as Al Bore. Its been openly admitted that desenting views are edited out. Since Man Made Global warming is now the PC way to go I have absolutely no doubt the numbers and evidence have been massaged to come to the conclusion they want.
    This "90%" BS especially. The earth has warmed and cooled dozens of times over the last few million years without man having anything to do with it.
    Man Made GW is a THEORY. An UNPROVEN THEORY. To claim its 90% for sure is a PC JOKE.
  12. daschoo

    daschoo Slanje Va

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    sorry to say but my poverty stricken uneducated mind agrees with you 100% on this.
  13. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    The IPCC doesn't do their own research, it can't doctor the numbers. They gather their information from peer reviewed, scholarly journals, so all of the information that they cite is openly available. The process of compiling information from many peer reviewed journals is commonly accepted in the scientific community, across all fields. Of course, after reviewing all the published work, the IPCC publishes the consensus view which is again open to peer review. It just so happens that nearly every major professionsal earth sciences groups have signed off on the IPCC's most recent report.

    And yes, you're right the Earth has cooled and warmed throughout time, often with various causes. However, to assume that the introduction of a new variable (man) has no effect, espescially when the evidence suggests otherwise, well that's just willfully being blind. As an example, let's say that I have a pine tree in my back yard. For years the tree goes through fairly predictable cycles. Sometimes it is more dry and sometimes it produces more pine cones, but when you look at the big picture, everything is pretty normal. Then, one year some pine beetles swarm in and start killing the tree, the needles are dead looking and the bark falls off in places. Should I assume that the beetles have something to do with it, or should I say, "My tree has gone through many changes and it's had some patches of dead needles before, this is just one of those phases." If you do the latter, then you end up with a dead tree.

    Science is very rarely politically correct, if anything, science pushes the boundaries of what is PC.
  14. daschoo

    daschoo Slanje Va

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    but for every scientific report linking man to the current change in climate you can find one that states it is not a man made problem. its basically just a case of which you choose to believe. my own personal belief is that its probably a bit of both.
  15. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    Well, I think you'd be hard pressed to match each credible "pro" GW study with an equally credible "anti" GW study. For one, that's why the IPCC reviewers present the consensus opinion that man does have an effect on the climate, because most of the studies in journals support that.

    It probably is a bit of both though, I agree, but that just makes things worse. If the world is going through a natural warming cycle and we are contributing to the warming, then you get unstable temperature increases. Unstable in the sense that they are ecologically destructive. Most plants and animals can adapt to gradual climate change, but when the rate of change is increased, then they struggle to survive.
  16. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed...part 2 Zone Supporter

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    but what i can never understand is why mankind is the root of all evil "this time"?

    don't just dig this up - what about the last mini ice age - what caused that? what about when the antarctic was green, not frozen? what caused that? what about when the continents themselves were together and drifted, what caused that?

    to focus on this *one* time the planet is changing and cry BAD MANKIND!!! seems to be self-serving and while you say one side ignores the evidence, i feel it's just as "ignoring" to pretend the world has never done this before we were here to screw it up.

    i've got an incredible guilt complex on many things. i think we all do at times and this seems to play off that. while i do want to hear rational thought to the counterpoints to this and think you'll do just fine with that, it still doesn't change the fact the world has remade itself hundreds of times in it's billions of years in existance.

    why is THIS time our fault? cause it is or cause we need it to be?
  17. PosterChild

    PosterChild New Member

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  18. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed...part 2 Zone Supporter

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  19. PosterChild

    PosterChild New Member

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    Fear not: if the left can tax this thing they won't care if it's cold or hot or just unusally humid or breezy-- just gotta find a way not to let the "climate crisis" go to waste.
  20. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    I'm going to respond to your post in full Ice, I just have to walk up the street and get some coffee first.

    I just got done reading that American Thinker article though and one of the quotes struck me as being kind of ironic.

    It's funny, because the American Geologic Society, the American Geophysical Union, The Geologic Society of London and the International Union of Geophysics and Geodesy all signed off on the IPCC's 2007 climate change report.

    Maybe your time isn't as near as you think. :D

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