Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by GimmeTheBall!, Feb 25, 2013.
Take it easy....
Life can't be that rough
You are exactly right.
The only thing Romo has going for him in this argument is that he's been statically better than any QB in team history. This is all due to him playing in a pass happy era where just about every starting QB in the NFL is statistically better then their predecessors. Danny White had more productive seasons than Roger Staubach and broke some of his team records. Troy Aikman was more productive than Danny White and broke some of his passing records. Romo has been more productive than all of them and will likely hold just about every Cowboys passing record before he's done.
The rule changes over the years have made just about every starting QB in todays game more productive then their predecessors. The rules have been bent to prefect the performance of every QB. Of the top 10 career passing rating leaders 7 are current starting QB's. You can't judge QB's who played in different eras purely off their statistics. You have to judge them on how they performed when it was down to do or die. Romo may rank ahead of White and Aikman "statistically but his elimination game record ranks behind both of them.
Romo has yet to show he can make some of the critical throws that Aikman and even White made when it was down to do or die. One of the greatest games Danny White ever played was on the road vs Atlanta in the 1980 playoffs when he brought the Cowboys from behind in the final moments with 2 TD passes to Drew Pearson. White even outplayed the great Joe Montana for almost 4 quarters in the 81 NFC title game before Montana did what he became famous for doing. Romo has yet to show he can make the big throws in the big moments when it's down to do or die. Unfortunately he's failed miserably in those situations.
Granted both White and Aikman had better teams around them but both made some big plays when the Cowboys backs were against the wall in elimination games while Romo has folded under the pressure in those same situations.
There's an easy way around that, using rankings instead of raw numbers.
Top 10 Seasons in Passer Rating
Aikman 6 (1991-1995, 1998)
Romo 6 (2006-09, 2011-12)
White 5 (1980-83, 85)
Top 5 Seasons in Passer Rating
Aikman 4 (1992-95)
Romo 3 (2006-07, 2011)
White 2 (1981-82)
Average Rank in 5 Best Seasons
Rankings can be just as misleading as raw numbers. I've never been one to focus on a QB's statistics or rankings when judging them amongst their predecessors who played in different eras. We're comparing Cowboy QB's who played on different teams in different eras. Each QB played under some different rules. What separates QB's is how they performed in big games over their career and in the postseason.
There's no argument that Romo has been a very good QB but not once in his 7 years as the starter has he ever brought the Cowboys from behind to win an elimination game and both White and Aikman have. It's been his inability to perform at a high level in elimination games that has him ranked behind some of his peers and his predecessors
Is this how low we've gone as fans that we comparing Romo (a good player) to a legend, an icon, a champion in Aikman?
It's easy for anyone to say that if you put Romo on the great 90's teams that he could have also led those teams to championships. FANS make that claim all the time but the problem with the theory is that Romo has yet to show he can avoid turnovers and make the big throw when it's been down to do or die. Based on Aikman's history in elimination games he wouldn't have turned the ball over vs Washington in the final 3 1/2 minutes with the game on the line. Could Romo have made the play to Harper that Aikman made in the 92 NFC title game vs SF in the final 4 minutes that sealed the win for the Cowboys? It's very easy to say yes but when faced in similar situations Romo has made the big mistake. Could Romo throw 4 TD passes in a SB with zero turnovers?
Again it's very easy for anyone to say yes but based on Romo's history of only one playoff win with 12 turnovers and 8 TD passes in 7 elimination games there's no facts to support he could. Just to reach those 3 SB's Aikman had to make some big plays along the way in critical situations. During the regular season Romo has shown he can play as good as any QB the Cowboys have had but in the games that have mattered most he hasn't played near as well Aikman and not even as well as Danny White.
Zoners will do anything to protect this bum!
It's all hypothetial and based on that I have to give the edge to Aikman because that is a known quantity.
However, I can see that Aikman did not perform like an elite QB when his talent was not elite.
How did Troy do in Carolina in 96? Arizona 97? Minnesota 98?
Like many have pointed out it is silly to compare Tony to Troy, and it is just as silly to compare the team success the Cowboys had during Troy's tenure to the team success Tony has had during this version of the Cowboys.
If I had to put my life savings on Tony winning a Super Bowl with the 90s Cowboys or Troy winning a Super Bowl with this version of the Cowboys there is no question what choice I would make. I may be wrong, but at least given the chance I would put my money where my mouth is. All I can say is that is my honest belief...I could be wrong.
Against buffalo the second tine around in 93 aikman threw for 207 yards 0tds and 1int. I feel pretty confident romo could have won that sb.
To reach that SB Romo first would have had to lead the Cowboys to the playoffs that season and win 2 playoff games vs a couple of future HOF QB's. In that SB vs Buffalo he would have had to do what he's never done in 7 elimination games and that's lead the Cowboys from behind. Romo has shown that if you give him a running game and a solid defense he can play very efficiently but he hasn't played well in come from behind situations in elimination games especially on the road.
Aikman only suffered 6 int's during the 93 regular season. It's not just the turnovers with Romo that's been the issue it's been the timing of some of them. A team can recover from an early turnover but not those that come when they're behind with only a few minutes to play. Aikman handled big game pressure extremely well during his career and Romo hasn't. Anyone who tries to argue that is wasting their time.
Do you get paid $20 every time you say "elimination game"? Even the original post from this thread cited White's PLAYOFF game performance, not some madeup fantasy game that only Romo has ever played in. And I see you never answered the question about how Aikman did in the playoffs once the Cowboys started to lose key players through attrition and age, when they needed more from Aikman than bus driving and handing off to the greatest of all time. How DID Troy do in Carolina in 96? Arizona 97? Minnesota 98? And Aikman sucked on the road in the playoffs too.
Comparing Romo to Aikman?
By the time the talent level around Aikman was no longer elite he was on the way down himself from back and concussion issues due to all the beatings he took. By 96 he was 4 years away from retirement. Romo was part of one real good Cowboys team in 07 that for 12 weeks was comparable to Aikman's 90's teams. That 07 team reached 12-1 a feat none of Aikman's teams ever achieved. During that 07 season Aikman commented that none of the Cowboy teams he played for had as an explosive an offense as that team.
That 07 team had 13 pro bowlers and I don't believe any of Aikman's teams ever had that many in one season. I'm not going to go into what happened the final few weeks of that season because I've covered it in detail many times but I believe had Aikman been the QB of that team the Cowboys would have won another SB.
You mean to tell me after the discussion we had several weeks ago you still haven't figured out what an elimination game is? White's playoff game performances were ELIMINATION games. I gave you several links from others in the know who used the term "elimination game" when referring to Romo's 1-6 do or die record but you continue to claim it's just a figment of my imagination. :laugh2: As for the question about Aikman I answered it he was in decline along with the team by 96.
From 91-95 Aikman was 2-2 on the road during the playoffs which included an NFC championship win. He didn't have to play many playoff games on the road when the team was winning SB's due to having home field advantage throughout. The road playoff losses started to mount as he and the team began to decline. Could Romo have even led those fading teams to the playoffs? By 96 the Cowboys day had come and gone due to age and free agency.
His style is more like Staubach.
All I remember is you made up some new game besides the officially NFL recognized playoff and regular season games. I googled Peyton Manning and elimination games, got nothing. Roger Staubach and elimination games, got nothing. As a matter of fact, I googled every quarterback I could think of and got 0 hits. How is that possible? (And yes, I know you'll run from answering this).
Aikman was 1-4 (I guess) on the road in playoff games, with only the San Fran game as a win. Actually, I have no idea if he should get the "loss" in that Detroit game (I think Buerlein started but Aikman had more attempts), since QB win loss record is also another made up stat for lazy people. Since you're the king of made up stats, maybe you can tell me?
The following season with a very talented team Aikman had 13 tds and 12 ints.
For comparison, here is how Aikman stacks up against Alex Smith.
Aikman: 165tds/141 ints 3.5TD%,3.0 INT%, Rating of 81.6
Smith: 81 tds/63 ints 3.7 TD%,2.9 INT % Rating of 79.1
Pretty ridiculous how similar their numbers are. Aikman was a good QB who was on a great team. Romo is a good QB who has been on an average team. There is no questioning Aikman had far superior talent and coaching around him.
I'm not saying Romo>Aikman. But I'm also not saying Aikman>Romo. Two different qb's with COMPLETELY different teams and circumstances.
I for one think Tony would fare much better with Troy's teams than Troy would with Tony's. If others disagree, that is fine. We are all fans, and we all have different views of the team. Thats one of the perks of being a fan