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Another reason to ban abortion...

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Cajuncowboy, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Another reason it should be banned...


    Artist hanged herself after aborting her twins

    Last Updated: 2:03am GMT 22/02/2008

    An artist killed herself after aborting her twins when she was eight weeks pregnant, leaving a note saying: "I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum."

    Emma Beck was found hanging at her home in Helston, Cornwall, on Feb 1 2007. She was declared dead early the following day - her 31st birthday.

    Her suicide note read: "I told everyone I didn't want to do it, even at the hospital. I was frightened, now it is too late. I died when my babies died. I want to be with my babies: they need me, no-one else does."
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    The inquest at Truro City Hall heard that Miss Beck had split up with her boyfriend, referred to as "Ben" after he "reacted badly" to the pregnancy.

    She saw her GP before the termination, but missed an appointment at a hospital in Penzance. She then cancelled, but later turned up to an appointment at a clinic at Royal Cornwall Hospital in Treliske. The counsellor was on holiday so a doctor referred Miss Beck to a pregnancy counselling telephone service eight days before carrying out the abortion when she was eight weeks pregnant, the inquest heard.

    The coroner, Dr Emma Carlyon, ordered that the identities of the doctor who performed the abortion and her lead consultant be kept secret.

    The inquest heard that Sylvia Beck, the victim's mother, wrote to the hospital after her daughter's death, saying: "I want to know why she was not given the opportunity to see a counsellor.

    "She was only going ahead with the abortion because her boyfriend did not want the twins.

    "I believe this is what led Emma to take her own life - she could not live with what she had done."

    The doctor said: "I discussed Emma's situation with her, and wrote on the form, 'Unsupported, lives alone, ex-partner aware'.

    "It is normal practice to give a woman the number for telephone counselling when a counsellor is not available.

    "I am satisfied that everything was done to make sure that Emma consented to the operation.

    She added: "We have since appointed more counsellors so there is more holiday cover."

    Katie Gibbs, Miss Beck's GP, told the hearing: "She was extremely distressed by the abortion procedure, and I didn't think she ever came to terms with it.

    "She had a long history of anxiety and depression. Despite my best efforts, she was not willing to see a counsellor after the termination."

    Her boss at the clinic, said: "The time that can be given to a woman by a counsellor is limited in a busy hospital.

    "I am satisfied everything was done to make sure Emma was consenting to surgery. I don't feel there was any gap in the counselling service.

    "There were lots of individuals who would be alert to any doubts. The comments made by Emma's mother are not about a doctor I recognise."

    Mrs Beck told the court: "Emma was considered a talented artist, and sold a number of paintings.

    "She was pleased when she became pregnant, but Ben reacted badly to the news."

    Recording a verdict of suicide, Dr Carlyon said: "It is clear that a termination can have a profound effect on a woman's life.

    "But I am reassured by the evidence of the doctors here."
  2. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    Cajun, I predict this will go over like a lead balloon with some posters on this forum.;)
  3. Mavs Man

    Mavs Man All outta bubble gum

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    Mythbusters

    :D
  4. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    Now that is just cool.:)
  5. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    I don't agree with abortion at all. Only one thing comes from that embryo and that's another human being and if you set that phase of life in motion, you're obligated to see it through, for the sake of that life.

    That said, I understand it. It can be banned I suppose, but it won't cease to exist, anymore than any other aspect of humanity's short comings will. Keeping it legal at least keeps it humane and does not leave a woman vulnerable to the atrocities she may face if she has to do it illegally.

    I don't like it, but I understand it.
  6. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    I don't wish to chase this rabbit here on a message board but how on earth is killing a child humane?
  7. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    It's not.
    But in keeping it legal, at least two lives aren't being destroyed (though the mental state of some women, as noted in the OP, proves that's not always the case).

    I think overall abortion is misused, as I remember looking at stats some time ago and the cases of abortion concerning rape or incest were very low overall, but it's not always the case that it is being misused.

    Oddly enough, my wife was in the hospital a month ago for an ectopic pregnancy. Her roommate was informed that she was going to give brith to a child with spina bifida, mental retardation and something else, I either don't remember or subconciously blocked out. Their recommendation was an abortion.

    I don't know what I'd do if I were given that awful news.

    I hate to cite a worse case scenario, because I know that's a ploy to excuse the fickle nature of some, but sometimes it's relevant.
  8. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Keeping it legal only takes away the legal consequences. However, as seen in this case, it doesn't do away with the emotional consequences. Having been involved with Post abortion ministries, I have seen this way too often.
  9. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    I understand that, but I wouldn't want the government legislating emotional consequences. I've known a few women who have had abortions, and I understand their pain and knowing that, I'd rather not see them strapped with the added pressure of legal consequences. For some, it exacts it's own retribution and I'm not comfortable with piling on someone who's already hurt.

    I'm not saying you are, just, as I've stated above, I don't like it, but I do understand it.
  10. Big Dakota

    Big Dakota New Member

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    South Dakota is gonna try it again next time it comes up for a vote. You guys should see the right to life people that picket on a daily basis in Rapid City, and we don't even have a clinic here, it's in Sioux Falls. I kid you not, it's EVERY DAY on several corners around this town.

    Looks like the front lines of the ban abortion front is right here in little South Dakota. Personally, I'd like to see it banned but it probably will be voted down again.
  11. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    The central question here is this:

    Does abortion constitute the taking of an innocent human life?

    If it does, unborn children deserve the same protection under the law that we enjoy, and there's absolutely no reason abortion should be permitted except in the most extreme circumstances, such as a pregnancy that imperils the mother's life.
  12. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    The hypocrisy we have on the books is that if a pregnant woman regardless of trimester is murdered then the perpetrator will be charged with a double homicide, right then and there we've declared it a life if its wanted and expendable if its not which is absolutely grotesque.
  13. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    I think it does and I think the argument that it's not a life until a certain stage is a bogus one. After just six weeks of my wife's pregnancy, we thought she was miscarrying and went to the emergency room. There was a heartbeat and there was my daughter who is now 4.

    Nothing else comes from there but a human being and it should be valued as such from day 1. Unfortunately it isn't and the extremes want to control all aspects based on an extreme ideology. Can it save the mother? Is it legitimate to avoid a lifetime of suffering for another human? Yes, but on the same token we will be dealing with abuses, such as some who simply treat it as birth control.

    Is it worth it to help some, at the cost of these abuses? I think (hope) so.
  14. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    So, it's an extremist ideology to believe that every innocent human being has an inherent right to life and that the law should safeguard that right for everyone?

    Is that what really passes for extremism today?

    Although I don't agree with those who are pro-abortion, I can at least understand their position if they refuse to view an unborn child as a human being. But I simply can't understand a pro-abortion position from someone who acknowledges that a fetus is a living human being yet refuses to extend it the same legal protections that we all enjoy.

    Criminals aren't absolved from consequences simply because they're traumatized by their actions. Furthermore, the act of killing shouldn't be legally validated just so we can lessen the emotional trauma for the persons involved in the killing.
  15. Bizwah

    Bizwah Well-Known Member

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    See, I don't understand this at all.

    If you believe this way, then why not legalize all drugs? I mean, people are gonna do it anyway, why not have a doctor or some pharmacist inject herion addicts...or cocaine addicts?

    As a pro-lifer, I've come to the realization that we will probably never ban abortion. I think it's wrong that the states can't decide for themselves, but that's our system.

    I liken the abortion issue to that of slavery years ago. Very passionate activists....and few people are indifferent towards it.
  16. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    I never said it was, I asserted that citing extreme cases to justify a law is. I also said that sometimes the extremes are relevant, but on the whole I'd rather see it weighed upon rationally.

    I'm not pro abortion, I said I don't like it, but I understand it for the reasons mentioned.
  17. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    When exactly is heroine ever going to be necessary? You can't compare recreational idiocy to a sometimes valid medical procedure.
  18. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    I very much agree with this post.
  19. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    Abortion is legal and it's a woman's choice as it should be.

    Pro Choice all the way!
  20. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    That's a crass post. It completely disregards the fact that someone is getting killed.

    You shouldn't be pro choice, you should be pro-find-an-alternative-to-killing-a-baby.

    It's legal all right, due to circumstance, as was slavery at one time. Because it's legal doesn't mean that it should be celebrated or that it's right, it means we're still a work in progress and far from enlightened.

    From this point on an effort should be made to make it less of a habit and more of an exception when a continued pregnancy threatens a life.

    The fact that you would post with what seems to be levity, while Bizwah is comparing it to recreational drugs, is indicative of the lack of understanding about something as serious as deciding to kill an offspring.

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