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Anybody not think this is coaching?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by phildadon86, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    You don't remember it because it didn't happen. That's what some people like to do around here; change the facts for the "wow" factor to help prove a point that isn't valid or accurate. There is no comparison between Payton and JG, not in terms of coaching experience or abilities as a playcaller. Payton wanted to open the offense up but BP wanted to stay conservative. Everyone knew that at the time and Payton turned down a job with the Raiders before he took the NO job.

    Now Zimmer (and Wade) is another story. It was time to go when they were fired and they were widely crucified by posters here.
    CowboyStar88 likes this.
  2. 17yearsandcounting

    17yearsandcounting Benched

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    Typical of the Jason fanbois. Bring up Reid? Strength of schedule excuses. Bring roster change? half a dozen people have done it better. Bring up Payton? Everyone on this team does it better.
  3. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    There's so much fail in this post. Those coaches have players to work with because they drafted well, were smart in FA and use those players well within the scheme. We suck at too many positions because we haven't drafted well and we put ourselves in salary cap trouble with stupid contracts and extensions. You also don't address the positions you suck in with FA. You address them in the draft but we suck at those positions because we didn't draft well.
    TheXFactor likes this.
  4. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    Because the fan base has been brainwashed to believe that coaching doesn't matter; that's it's not one of the most important hires a team can make, especially in a salary cap era. They think Jerry is more important than a GM or quality coach because Jerry told them so. Weakness at a certain position? Don't worry, Jerry will get his man in FA....Jerry always gets his man. We need an OL? Get Waters out of retirement. We need a LB when Lee goes down? Get Ernie Simms off the street in October and start him his second week here. It's amazing the people we just bring off the street (and off their couch) or have been cut by other (losing) teams and they immediately start or see significant playing time for us. If that's not an indication of how woefully inept we are at drafting and developing depth on our team, I don;t know what to tell people.
  5. Verdict

    Verdict Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubt in my mind that coaching in the last four minutes of the game cost us the game. You can't just stop trying to get first downs and relying solely on the clock with that much time left in the game.
    The game lasts a full 60 minutes, so why stop playing with only 56 minutes of it gone. If we played the game the last four minutes with the same approach as we had the prior 56 minutes we would be 5 and 3 AND would have beat the Lions by 10 points.
  6. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    Agree with that. I've seen it claimed that Payton was to blame for everything but I don't remember it that way at all. Everyone knew Parcells had a very heavy hand on the offense -- it's not like that was some secret.

    And BTW, Zimmer wasn't fired. He left for another job when Bill was waffling about whether to quit or not.
    CowboyStar88 likes this.
  7. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen so many people that like to draw some kind of strange parallel between JG and Payton's time with the Cowboys. It's as if this place never existed because the posts or sentiments people are referring to never happened. I guess if people make themselves believe that Payton was vilified here (ie: like Garrett) that it somehow gives them hope that JG will turn things around because it all worked out for SP. Problem is, the situations or criticisms are no where near the same. Problem is, SP was a respected coach who paid his dues. He had his pick of jobs and was able to turn down Oakland until a better offer came around. JG has been an abject failure, first as an OC and now as a HC. He'll be lucky to get a job as a position coach in the NFL when his time is done in Dallas and even then it'll be because some family member/friend already works or has a hook in that organization......

    Thanks for the correction on Zimmer. By the time of his departure, I was firmly in the GROZ corner and was happy to see him go one way or another.
  8. Verdict

    Verdict Well-Known Member

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    Garrett isn't all that great of a coach, but the drafting has been way above average since he has been here. In fact, the drafts under Garrett have been some of the best in recent memory.
  9. 17yearsandcounting

    17yearsandcounting Benched

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    Yeah, that 2012 draft sure is amazing.
    silver likes this.
  10. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    Way above average? You need get higher expectations.
  11. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    This is a very good observation.

    I don't think it is one thing that has resulted in this .500 record and lack of playoff wins. If it was, they'd fix it. It is a whole slew of things which, unfortunately, start with Jerry. As you noted above, this team doesn't have an identity and Jerry tries to change it on a regular basis (without the working knowledge to do so successfully). He regularly undermines his coaches. Garrett may very well be a good coach someday. Unfortunately, he was hired as a HC way too early (probably as an OC as well). He should have spent another 5-6 years working as a lower level assistant in all phases of an offense (QB, WR, RB). Jerry won't bring in another coach with clout (he made that clear with his comments on how distasteful he found the Parcells era). He'd rather have a coach who is OK with him giving locker room interviews.....in other words, a coach without any real power.

    Players more or less report to Jerry. There is no accountability and, as a result, no repercussions for losing. Just can an assistant coach or two. It breeds a culture where teams struggle when the chips are down....which is exactly what this team has done.
    tantrix1969 likes this.
  12. Plankton

    Plankton Well-Known Member

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    Very true.

    It's because he's wholly unqualified to lead a football operation. He is a completely reactionary guy who lacks the football gravitas and organizational building skills to determine a philosophy and stick to it. Between he and his Chemical Engineer son, you have two unqualified guys at the top of the food chain, making the organizational decisions.

    Jones is also more concerned about sizzle rather than steak. As long as the Cowboys are "relevant", he's happy, record be damned. In his mind, he's responsible for the three Super Bowl trophies.

    Cowboy fans should consider themselves lucky that Jones' roommate on the road at Arkansas was Jimmy Johnson and not Ken Hatfield, or there's no telling how the last 25 years would have been.
    TheXFactor likes this.
  13. notherbob

    notherbob Active Member

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    With a .500 record going back several decades, who says the Cowboys aren't consistent?

    That's what you get when you pay a few superstars so much money that there isn't enough left over to be able to afford a proper supporting cast and mediocrity is the result.

    This is the GM's fault and will continue to be.
  14. Fansince64

    Fansince64 Active Member

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    Now, that is a really, really scary thought. The only thing it would have done is give some credence to Jerry's belief that he could do a better job than his head coach. After Hatfield, that probably would have been a valid conclusion.


    Mote Sliger
  15. silver

    silver Well-Known Member

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    zing!

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