1. Welcome to CowboysZone!  Join us!  Come on!  You know you want to!

Anyone else think the Joneses sounded insane in the pressers?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by JPostSam, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. JPostSam

    JPostSam Well-Known Member

    1,005 Messages
    219 Likes Received
    ...with the line about there being myriad trade charts and that they change from team to team and year to year and round to round and according to the position of venus in the night sky and whether or not papa john's is running a special deal that day?

    ...and with the line about stephen being an engineer trying to forecast oil prices 15 years out from now and only god knowing what those would be?

    ...and the line about there being 14 starters, so guys like escobar and terrence williams and webb and wilcox and randle are amazing value because they're all starters?

    must have been a very awkward tension in that room, with the media trying to keep their cool.

    i mean, why couldn't they just say, "things didn't work out as well as we had hoped; some of the guys we liked were taken before our turn and, on the trade down, san fran had us over a barrel and, well, we had to take someone and, hey, these guys are pretty good so, like, how about giving them a chance before you judge us, okay?"
  2. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

    30,497 Messages
    6,222 Likes Received
    I didn't. I like the post draft pressers.
  3. CowboysPhan

    CowboysPhan Obsequious Cowboys Toadie

    447 Messages
    34 Likes Received
    Personally I thought it made a lot of sense and helps explain why teams will make trades that they feel good about while the fans and media bash them for not getting value according to "the" draft chart.
  4. Mansta54

    Mansta54 Well-Known Member

    9,670 Messages
    190 Likes Received
    Yep, me too.
  5. nickjamesw43

    nickjamesw43 Active Member

    389 Messages
    126 Likes Received
    It didn't sound insane to me at all. Of course they would change. My understanding is the trade charts are computed from what certain picks went for in past deals. That's how they come with the values. As teams get smarter about the value of certain picks the deals are subject to reflect that and thus the values would adjust. The original draft chart that is now public available was created thirty years ago. It can be a decent measuring stick for us fans but if the cowboys hadn't updated it at all I would be very very concerned about our front office.

    What Stephen was getting at with the engineer metaphor is that the actual value of the picks is unknown. That's because of the nature of the draft. He goes on to say that the greatest engineers in the world cannot actually determine the value of the oil they can only project. There are often wide discrepancies between projections (he said engineers vary as much as 300%). These projections are akin to different draft value charts.

    By the way right after this the person who reporter who asked it follows up with "well if there are different draft value charts then what's the point?" I know the DFW media aren't the sharpest tools in the shed but really? Lol. I got a kick out of that one.

    Onto the last point that's not really something that is controversial around the league. Your third corner/second tight end/third wide receiver is going to play alot of snaps. I would bet most of the league views them as starters or near starters.
  6. mmillman

    mmillman Well-Known Member

    2,153 Messages
    33 Likes Received
    they panicked.

    The worst thing that can happen to a team is 8-8. Don't get elite talent in the draft and don't make the playoffs.
  7. bkight13

    bkight13 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

    2,375 Messages
    662 Likes Received
    I think they backed up their actions with a lot of reasonable explanations. They clearly have an idea about what type of team they want to build and what the biggest needs were(and no, DL is not one of them).
  8. Ratmatt

    Ratmatt Active Member

    919 Messages
    70 Likes Received
    Yes!DL is one of them.
  9. Ratmatt

    Ratmatt Active Member

    919 Messages
    70 Likes Received
    That's a great post,and oh so true!
  10. honyock

    honyock Well-Known Member

    1,362 Messages
    452 Likes Received
    This is pretty much how I took it as well. I think it's easy to discount Jerry's explanations because he can sound defensive when he says them, he meanders like crazy and says too much at times, and he has that weird manner of communicating that is so uniquely Jerry. But if you fight through all that, I thought the points themselves in that press conference were pretty reasonable.
  11. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

    21,473 Messages
    8,376 Likes Received
    I definitely think Jerry's insane. I've been saying that for years. But these examples don't fit that. He was making a point about the art of the deal and if everybody shared the same chart and thought exactly the same about the value of picks every year you wouldn't have much movement. There has to be a difference of opinion to get most deals done. I think he's right about that. The multiple charts thing is probably right. Those charts have to change as time goes by or they are completely worthless.

    I never liked the trade chart to begin with. That was supposed to be a general guideline not some gospel on trade value. That chart can't tell you the strength of that year's draft class. It can't tell you the current shape of your team and the talent available where you may need it. It can't tell you your cap situation or the true value of next year's picks and those prospects.

    Last year your trade chart told you the #1 pick (Andrew Luck) was worth X points. This year that same chart with the same pick (Eric Fisher) was worth the same points.

    Do yourself a favor and rip up the chart and use your brain.

    The fact is the NFL is a two back league and it is a pass happy league. So your 2nd back and 3rd WR are pretty close to being starters. Or if you run a ton of two TE sets, that 2nd TE is essentially a starter. I don't have a problem with him saying that. Those guys can play a ton of snaps every week.

    Now I tend to doubt Gavin Escobar is going to be that heavily involved in our offense only because we've seen it before with Fasano and Bennett. Until I see it work, I'll assume it won't. Terrance Williams may not be on the field enough initially to be a quasi-starter either. I'd say Randle will. He'll probably start some games this year.
  12. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

    14,741 Messages
    2,387 Likes Received
    Actually, his explanations were pretty logical and reasonable.


    I don't have a problem with them at all.
  13. Zordon

    Zordon Well-Known Member

    9,783 Messages
    5,195 Likes Received
    They both looked in shock during the 1st day presser. Totally unprepared to explain what just had happened. Jerry sounded like he had just been briefed about Frederick minutes before the presser.
  14. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

    43,933 Messages
    1,000 Likes Received
    I followed it entirely. Made sense to me. But I understand how decline curves on oil and gas wells work, so maybe it was easier for me to follow.
  15. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

    50,133 Messages
    4,330 Likes Received
    Sounded normal to me also. I really enjoyed them if for no other reason we get a glimpse into what the draft day stragedy was.
  16. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

    22,567 Messages
    501 Likes Received
    Clearly.
  17. jobberone

    jobberone Genetically engineered moderating Orangutan Staff Member

    37,540 Messages
    3,828 Likes Received
    Actually I enjoyed that as well. He made good sense esp compared to some of his ramblings at times.
  18. WV Cowboy

    WV Cowboy Waitin' on the 6th

    10,939 Messages
    1,244 Likes Received
    They made sense to me.

    It also made me understand that I have no clue what all goes in to NFL scouting, drafting, etc.

    On a much smaller scale, I have coached youth sports for 23 or 24 years, and we begin each season with a draft.

    In our case, you base your selection on all of the times that you have seen each kid play in the past, .. also you base your choice on the times you have seen them play other sports, plus we have two days of tryouts.

    You make your overall list and rate them from 1-50 or 1-60 depending on how many are trying out.

    Everybody's list is not the same.

    There are always surprises during the draft because everyone looks at players differently and judges talent differently.

    But the players that you want are always a moving target based on who picks before you and who they happen to select.

    Drafts are always fast paced and you are making decisions on the spur of the moment.

    Like I said, ours is a much smaller scale, .. I can only imagine how crazy the NFL draft must be.

    It sounds like they did their homework, and followed a plan that they thought woud make us better.

    We'll see.
  19. nake

    nake Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

    4,324 Messages
    912 Likes Received
    I agree. It was like he just found out about the pick and the blow-back from the fans and the media right before the press conference. He seemed either unprepared to deal with it or unable to understand why so many people were upset. On day 2, he had Terrance Williams to hold up as a prize and did much better.

    Jerry is usually a lot like Sparky Anderson used to be, talking in circles endlessly, but doing so on purpose. It takes a certain kind of genius to talk to the media day after day and have them not understand you really haven't said anything until after you've left the room.
  20. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

    14,741 Messages
    2,387 Likes Received
    Yea, if you don't understand linear regression than I could see how somebody would be lost in the explanation.

Share This Page