Recap: Archer Chat: 4/17/14

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by WoodysGirl, Apr 18, 2014.

  1. WoodysGirl

    WoodysGirl U.N.I.T.Y Staff Member

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    Rich (New Jersey)

    Hi Todd - If Jerry Jones Cowboys are interested in Pittsburgh defensive tackle Aaron Donald will Jerry trade up to get him or just take a chance he'll be there at # 16 or just go for safety Calvin Pryor, tight end Eric Ebron or offensive tackle Taylor Lewan ?

    Todd Archer
    (12:04 PM)

    I've said this a couple of times, but I think if they move up at all, it's only a couple of spots. I don't see a big move up. I can see them moving up for Donald, but lean more towards hoping he's there at No. 16. I don't think Pryor or Ebron would be their pick. Lewan is an interesting possibility. He'd be a good fit and maybe they move Doug Free inside to guard.

    R Lank, MD [via mobile]

    With romo 1 bad hit, and he's finished along with the uncertainty of orton why not draft a decent qb. at romo's age along with his injuries would u say that a high risk paying him that kind of money. i mean like u and jean said why pay age.

    Todd Archer
    (12:06 PM)

    When it comes to quarterbacks and left tackles, paying age doesn't seem as problematic for a lot of teams. I understand what you're saying about drafting a quarterback, but I don't see them going after a guy in the first two rounds. Maybe the third but more likely fourth or fifth. When you're picking a guy there, it's a projection more than a known commodity. Honestly, I think when Romo is done, whenever that is, the Cowboys will draft his replacement the following year and go with the guy.

    Wayne (NC)

    With the significant amount of lineman the cowboys brought in to the ranch the other day, is it safe to say thats there main priority early in the draft?

    Todd Archer
    (12:08 PM)

    Good call, Wayne. Of the names I know that came in 12 were defensive linemen. Seems pretty telling.

    Daryl (jersey)

    If the cowboys were to trade back do you think they would take the same BS deal as last year or demand a second round pick?

    Todd Archer
    (12:09 PM)

    Depends on how far they trade back, but they got the correct value on last year's trade with San Francisco according to their charts.

    Juan (Texas)

    At what point during the pre draft process do the cowboys usally put there board together?

    Todd Archer
    (12:10 PM)

    They have a board now but it's not finalized. That process starts about 2-3 weeks before the draft, so look for it to start happening soon.

    Read the rest:
    nake likes this.
  2. JoeyBoy718

    JoeyBoy718 Well-Known Member

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    I keep hearing they got good value for the trade according to "their charts." Are their charts the same as other teams'? Anyone can have their own arbitrary chart. My chart can be a 1st rounder is worth two 7th rounders. So if someone offers three 7th rounders I'm running to the bank.
    daveferr33 and BigStar like this.
  3. Cowboys22

    Cowboys22 Well-Known Member

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    The media outlets claiming Jerry got hosed on the deal were going off the original chart created back in the Jimmy Johnson days. Over the years, the charts have been adjusted because the original chart was heavily weighted towards the first few picks. This was done because Dallas had high picks in those days and Jerry wanted to pillage teams for those picks. Since those days, draft picks throughout have become more valuable and the numbers have been adjusted. They actually came out slightly ahead in the deal last year by the new charts.
  4. Nation

    Nation Well-Known Member

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    Yes the chart will vary from year to year. It's going to take a lot more to get into the top ten picks in a year with multiple franchise quarterbacks, pass rushers, and offensive tackles than in a year like last year. That is why teams talk about "first round grades" and that sort of thing. It's a lot easier to trade up when there is less talent available.
  5. thunderpimp91

    thunderpimp91 Well-Known Member

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    Totally assuming here, but I would guess every team has a different chart, and every teams charts change from year to year. Each team probably makes a chart that is based around their judgment of depth value in each draft class, as well as their individual team needs. For example a team that feels its not a deep class and feels they are a player away from making a run likely has a lot more value on 1st round pick than say a team who feels its a deep draft class with multiple positions of need.The generic charts you find on draft sites are great to use, but you can't judge a draft day trade completely off of them.
    pancakeman and Future like this.
  6. OhSnap

    OhSnap Well-Known Member

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    Remind me not to let you build me a draft value chart. :D this link also has a calculator that uses the old Jimmy Johnson values.
    casmith07 likes this.
  7. dmq

    dmq If I'm so pretty, why am I available?

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    Jerry wanted to keep the pick in the first round for the extra contract year. Looks like a smart choice right now.
    waving monkey and reddyuta like this.
  8. Little Jr

    Little Jr Well-Known Member

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    The trade worked out but the only ones I've heard say it was good value was the cowboys people. No one else thought so.
    ufcrules1 likes this.
  9. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    If getting a Travis Frederick and Terrance Williams for a trade down every year means we're getting "hosed" I hope we get hosed every damn year in the draft.

    These questions are brutal.
  10. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    Ed Cahill on the Draft Show at said that the Cowboys left a second rounder on the table value wise.

    So the guy doing his show from inside Valley Ranch thinks we get hosed as well. I guess he never got a copy of the new chart either. Interestingly, he said that he played a game with the scouts last year of making a list of 32 players and the first person to have every name drafted off the list wins.

    Cahill says he was the first to have 31 guys selected before losing to one of the scouts. When a guy doing a webcast can almost beat our professional scouts, does this bother anybody?
    Doomsay and Chocolate Lab like this.
  11. conner01

    conner01 Well-Known Member

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    we need to get hosed alot more often then. the trade back worked perfectly. people forget that to get top value you need two teams wanting your pick. if there is just one you won't get top value.
  12. skinsscalper

    skinsscalper Well-Known Member

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    "Beat out a couple of scouts"? Hmm, it's amazing that the entire NFL has missed out on this guy's genius with such an amazing track record in a water cooler game. Losing a game about where someone is drafted is supposed to be cause for uproar? Really, dude? Here's what I'd like to know: how well did the "losing" scouts do in their analysis of how well a player would project to the NFL? Who gives a rat's *** about where a guy was taken. How well did the scouts accurately predict a players upside and have those players panned out? That's really the only question that matters.

    You think the Redskins (or 30 other teams) wouldn't like to rethink Russell Wilson? Hindsight can be played 1,000,000 different ways. Gosh I wonder where Mr. Webcast ranked him? "Does this bother anybody?" Puhlease. No, I have better things to do with my "worry".
  13. waving monkey

    waving monkey Well-Known Member

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    well that means a lot
  14. Little Jr

    Little Jr Well-Known Member

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    I think it does lol. When their value chart is the only one that said it was a good value trade you have to ask yourself if they might need to reevaluate their chart.

    Imo that was just them trying to blow smoke for not being prepared for what happend. They panicked and wasn't prepared for floyd to dropped. How the scouts and coaching staff wasn't on the same page is beyond me. At some point you would think the scouts and coaching staff would get together and go over the draft board. Especially since it was a new coaching staff with a knew scheme. I would think kiff or rob would see the board and tell the scouts floyd shouldn't be that high on the board. Maybe they just assumed he would be gone and there wasn't a reason for it. Either way they panicked and wasn't prepared and had to take what they could get. In the end it worked out but they should have got a 2nd not a 3rd.
  15. waving monkey

    waving monkey Well-Known Member

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    but who are saying these criticisms about our selections. It is the media idiots as commonly referred to even around here.
    How do they know. How roundly criticized was the last draft as an example. But roundly applauded today. If we don't receive the value number
    yet receive two players who are well regarded which is more important. the chart number are the players? The symbol or the reality?
  16. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Broaddus knows the real values for the picks.

    He probably tweeted it back when it happened if anyone cares enough to hunt for it.
  17. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

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    I just can't get how you say this. You don't know why they skipped him. And maybe they knew they weren't getting the value they wanted but accepted that to get what they wanted.
  18. Little Jr

    Little Jr Well-Known Member

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    He said they should have got a 2nd
  19. Little Jr

    Little Jr Well-Known Member

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    Yes media idiots I guess. Lol the one who had been scouts and gms as well. Like I said the only ones that said it was a fair deal was the cowboys front office and fans who don't see any wrong in what they do.

    Again the trade worked out well. Still doesn't mean it wassnt a good value trade. I'm a big hold'em player and I compare it to that. You can make a bad call and still get paid off. Doesn't mean the call was a good call just because you drag the pot. Its still a bad call but with a little luck it paid off. That's how I look at the trade. We didn't get the value we should have but with a little luck it paid off.
    Doomsay and visionary like this.
  20. Little Jr

    Little Jr Well-Known Member

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    Its been pretty well documented why they didn't take floyd. I guess its up to the person to believe it or not.

    They didn't come out and say they didn't get the value they wanted. They said with "their charts" it was good value. I agree they knew they weren't getting they value they wanted. I think the " we got good value on the trade according to our charts" was a smoke screen because they knew they didn't get the value they should have. We just disagree on why. I believe the panicked. I believe they saw floyd dropping the whole time and assume they would grab him. Until Rob and kiff stepped and and said no when they were on the clock. It caused panicked and they got what they could get. It worked out. No harm no foul this time.
    visionary likes this.

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