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Archer: What should Cowboys do with Carr?

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by Alexander, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    The money is practically the same. They have the leverage in that they can absorb the hit, plus he is going to have a hard time getting open market value on what they are likely to offer considering how poor he played. I was being a bit sarcastic. The Suggs deal is supposed to help us, right?
     
  2. LatinMind

    LatinMind iPhotoshop

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    They spoke about Carr on talkin cowboys and brought up a good point. It was too much to pay him but that was the going rate for CBs in that fa yr. Dallas needed one and had to pay.
     
  3. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    The biggest issue in this discussion of Carr and Mo is scheme IMO. They are both press CBs. We run a zone scheme. Said this when we hired the new staff and even before when Ryan was here. We aren't using them in a way that best untilises their skills. If they can't play well in our scheme, then we should find a way to trade them and bring in players that do. Contracts are a problem.
     
  4. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    Not that simple. We do not run a pure zone. We run both zone and man. The problem is neither Carr or Claiborne played well enough doing either thing and we had horrible safety support.

    The scheme being blamed is a severe cop out that I am surprised people are still using.
     
  5. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know what the numbers say but we do not run a lot of press man, even when we play man. That's where they shine. Neither have great speed or unbelievable agility. Both are strong, play good press technique and use their long arms and size to make plays. We just do not do a lot of that in our scheme.
     
  6. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    It is suicide to run all press man when you have horrible safety support. Put Heath and Church in Seattle at safety and see how much press man they run.
     
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Even in the past, when Marinelli was in Detroit and Chicago, they didn't run Press Man schemes much. That's not what his scheme tries to do. I agree that you have to have Safeties but if/when we do have good Safeties, I doubt we will be playing that type of coverage much. This is more about how and where you want to spend cap. We are paying a lot of many for guys who may not fit our scheme when we could probably spend that money on Safeties and DLs and bring in less expensive CBs who excel in Zone Coverage.
     
  8. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    That does not mean he does not tweak things. If he was running pure zone coverages with these cornerbacks, then he would be a certified imbecile.

    But the problem is we committed to what Rob Ryan wanted and then foolishly dumped him and then brought in a system and philosophy that could not be any more opposite in nature. The amount of money tied up with Carr and Claiborne is huge and you cannot just ignore it.

    They can do this if they get better with the rush and improve the safety support.
     
    Common Sense likes this.
  9. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I never said that we run a straight zone scheme. No team runs just one coverage scheme but past history does suggest that Marinelli is a zone scheme with a focus on 4 man pressure and 7 man coverage. That's been his defensive philosophy since he's been in the league.

    I do agree with your statements about Ryan and what we tried to do to facilitate his defensive scheme but I also think it's possible to try and move these guys and make smarter investments in players that fit better. It's silly for us to continue to pay these kinds of salaries for Zone Coverage CBs IMO. Zone Coverage guys are cheaper in most cases and we should be trying to take advantage of that. So long as we are paying CBs premier money to play zone, we are going to have problems with our cap. It's a bigger problem, IMO, then just getting these guys to play well in a scheme they are not suited to IMO.
     
  10. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    That still does not mean he is incapable of recognizing what he has to work with. There is a reason there were a bunch of references to Seattle being dropped in during the offseason. Pressure from the front four, very little blitzing. The only difference is the coverages behind it, especially from the linebackers and safeties. The middle of the field, no matter what the cornerbacks play at the line or off coverage has to be solid.

    Fix the pass rush and it will be impressive how much better the secondary becomes. It could be as revolutionary as oh, well, adding someone better than Phil Costa was for the offensive line.
     
  11. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    For how long? You have X amount of money to spend on your Roster. Press Coverage CBs are expensive. Why would you pay them Press Coverage money to be Zone Coverage DBs?

    Eventually, those Safeties and DLs and LBs are going to have to be paid as well. You can't pay them all premium salaries.
     
  12. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    Brandon Carr's contract is not cost prohibitive.
     
  13. garyv

    garyv Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I don't care what they do except retool the Defensive LIne with 2 or 3 new starters. I'm a strong believer in starting young talent out of College for several reasons:

    1) It's much cheaper
    2) They typically play harder
    3) Keeps Older Players from getting too lazy knowing that someone younger might be coming in...
    4) In my view every year whomever you Draft in the first 2 rounds should be good enough to walk-in
    and beat out a Starter; if this isin't happening than something is wrong !!!

    Honestly the way I have always thought about Football was the way Jimmy Johnson did it and
    "I LOVE IT"
     
  14. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think his salary in 2014 is 7.5 Million. That is the 3rd highest paid CB in the NFL in 2014.

    I guess I don't understand why you say that his contract is not cost prohibitive?
     
    Common Sense likes this.
  15. Kristen82

    Kristen82 Benched

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    He's a #2 being paid like a #1.
     
  16. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    Because the cap is $130M+?
     
  17. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    The total cap number really doesn't have anything to do with it IMO. Lets say the cap number is 130M, that doesn't mean that the contract is a good one or that it's not hurting the team. If the contract were not hurting the team, it would then not be necessary to consider cutting a player like Ware because of his contract. The contract, IMO, is hurting the team.
     
  18. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    $7.5M for a CB out of a $130M+ cap figure is just not that bad.
     
  19. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    It's currently the 3rd highest salary for any CB in the NFL. If we are all in agreement that Carr is not playing at the level of the top 5 CBs in the NFL, then I don't think there is any way we can say that it's not that bad. It's the Ware discussion all over again. Either we are making decisions, as an organization, based on performance or we are not.

    Whatever the case, I don't personally think that this Salary is a very good situation for us. That's just my opinion.
     
    Common Sense likes this.
  20. erod

    erod Well-Known Member

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    Dallas plays zone because it can't generate any pass rush whatsoever. Press is great with a pass rush. It's a TD for the other team without a pass rush.
     

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