Are combine numbers over rated?

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by fortdick, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    You would have to have seen the other thread. This was a response to bears only **** in the woods. I thought the Packer reference was funny. Sorry if you don't agree.
  2. Sam I Am

    Sam I Am Unfriendly and Aloof!

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    Larry Allen would like a word with you...
  3. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    Not sure I understand what you're saying.

    You'd pick a guy that doesn't work out over a guy that does if both had the same production? Why? Not that either is right or wrong, but I don't see why you'd be so eager to take a guy that has no desire to increase his natural talent.

    What makes you think a guy that avoided the gym the previous 20+ years of his life will suddenly become a gym rat once he gets paid millions of dollars?
  4. robert70x7

    robert70x7 Well-Known Member

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    If a football player is competing at a high level of college football and was invited to the combine, it was likely he didn't "avoid" the weight room for the previous 20 years. You can develop work ethic, strength and power once your in the pros. Larry Allen took weight lifting a lot more seriously once he became a player for Cowboys (I've heard him say it in multiple interviews). My whole point is if someone produced just as well as someone who scores better in a MUSCULAR ENDURANCE test, why should that be a knock on him? It is not a football specific drill.

    You're blowing what I said out of proportion. Everyone that plays football at the collegiate level works out. Just because someone has "extreme conditioning" does not make him a better football player.

    Go into a NFL weight room, or college weight room for that matter. Find me ONE PROGRAM that revolves around lifting 50-60% of their 1 rep max 25-40 times. You can't, because it isn't specific to what is required on the football field, ergo it is pointless to say that this exercise is some sort of predictor for their ability to play football. I simply do not buy it.
  5. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    I'd wager that while it's possible, most prospects don't suddenly discover what a joy it is to lift weights and work out till you can barely walk once they get a sudden influx of cash. Especially linemen.

    No one said anything about conditioning making you a "better football player". I was simply explaining why it is that some people care about the bench press, and it doesn't just come down to the reps.

    Whether you value it or not, it's a legitimate way for evaluators to gauge which guys have been spending time in the weight room.

    LaMichael James said himself that before he started prepping for the draft he couldn't bench press and now he can. It's not just about the rep number, it shows a willingness to put the time in when no one is watching, among other things.

    You are attempting to say it's insignificant and it's not, it means something. How much it means is clearly debatable, but at the end of the day it teaches you something about a guy you may have only seen on tape and spoken to for all of 20 minutes.

    I'd love to go into an NFL weight room and ask some questions, maybe you can help me out with that.
  6. robert70x7

    robert70x7 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with everything you have said, but we are arguing two different things. It does show the willingness to prepare and lift weights, but that measures something completely different than what is actually shown on the football field. I'll concede that it does have value in finding out which players are dedicated, but they don't spend their entire career seeing how many times they bench 225 pounds. It is a one time, one test thing that they will never EVER have to do again during their time in the NFL.

    My argument is that the 225 LB bench press in itself is NOT a football specific exercise for NFL caliber football players. One way they could improve it would be to have standards for each position and a weight that would require a 5-8 reps to exhaustion would be much more indicative of a player's overall strength and power.

    From a relative football strength perpsective, the test is useless. If you want to see who has put in the most work and dedication, then fine. Use it for that, but I hate seeing players who vault up the draft board because of workouts they have been preparing for that they will never do once the combine is over.
  7. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    You pretty much just defined the entire combine. :laugh2:

    As far as players vaulting up boards for the bench, I don't really think that happens. As fans, we see a lot of news about a guy putting up those numbers but the evaluators see that and think, "Maybe I should go watch more tape on that guy, I didn't see all that strength on the field initially."
  8. dallasfaniac

    dallasfaniac Active Member

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    Who are these players? Darrius Heyward Bey (He did outperform both Crabtree and Maclin this year, his first with a real QB) and who else?
  9. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, not really sure how you can single out any specific test because it isn't performed in the NFL.

    How many guys run 40 yards in only spandex on Sundays?

    By this definition, the Wonderlic is probably the most valuable assessment as it actually requires thinking, something that we can at least expect to be done on Sundays.
  10. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

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    Just look at some of the Raiders' picks and you'll have your answer.

    And yes, DHB would be one of them regardless of how other players have played. He vaulted up to the top 10 due to his timed speed. I think he'll end up being okay though.
  11. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    Dead on.

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