Are we not going to challenge Ratliff's cap hit?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by TheRat, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. bkight13

    bkight13 Capologist

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    The extension was far from ridiculous. He got hurt and then quit on the team, but he was being underpaid under his original deal and the extension remedied that and added very little new guaranteed money vs the number of years he would be under contract. Every deal looks bad if the player gets hurt.
  2. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    This won't provide any kind of cap relief, but Ratliff will probably be paying a hefty amount of cash back to the organization in a fraud lawsuit. This stuff takes time...people should just put this discussion to bed until we hear something.

    tl;dr - no, no cap relief and there won't be because the claim is unrelated to the CBA.
    FuzzyLumpkins likes this.
  3. StevenOtero

    StevenOtero Well-Known Member

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    That might be asking too much, look at his avatar. The default avatar.....................................................................
    casmith07 likes this.
  4. Next Years Champ

    Next Years Champ Active Member

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    he was an All Pro back in 2007 when we sent about 9 or 10 players to the Pro Bowl that year.

    Wade Phillips was in charge of that scheme and Ratliff was OK..

    Ware was OK.

    Spencer was OK.

    those guys have all fallen off the map..

    Ratliff has taken a powder and that's about what I thought as a player.

    He was too big for his britches as they say in Texas.

    Sorry..this is my opinion of the player.

    I've seen better and we need better.

    On that we can agree I'm sure.
  5. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    That may be the case, however can you prove it?

    We can sit here and guess about what happened all day long, the problem comes down to what you can prove and what you cant. If you want to get money back from an injured player who you think was not injured, you have to have hard evidence that he was faking the injury and purposely gave erroneous information to the Cowboys about said injury.

    It called material misrepresentation.......................its not about what you know, its about what you can prove when it comes to legal action.
  6. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

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    Oh I get that. We don't have any inside knowledge so it's a pointless discussion beyond to say we don't have enough information.

    I can still hate on Ratliff. I watched his dog and pony show.
    dogberry and casmith07 like this.
  7. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    He's a piece of work, that's for sure.
  8. Bluefin

    Bluefin Well-Known Member

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    If Dallas gets a judgement against Jay Ratliff and he is ordered to repay any money, the team will get salary cap relief.

    Whenever money changes hands between NFL clubs and NFL players, it must be accounted for on the salary cap.

    NFL teams are allowed to go after bonus money if a player commits a forfeitable breach of his contract.

    This is what the NFL CBA states:

    Jay Ratliff refused to practice for the Dallas Cowboys last year.

    He and his agent, Mark Slough, claimed the 2012 hernia injury was more serious than had been reported and usually required a year to completely hear. Ratliff was released on October 16th with a designation of Failed Physical when Dallas gave up on Ratliff returning to the field after meeting with the player and his agent.

    One week later, Ratliff was medically cleared by his doctor to work out for prospective NFL teams.

    Ten days after that, Ratliff signed a one year contract with the Chicago Bears.

    Ratliff went from claiming he wouldn't be able to play in 2013 and getting released by the Cowboys to getting medically cleared and signing with the Bears in a matter of 17 days.

    If Dallas can prove Ratliff violated his player contract, the team can request to be repaid all signing bonus money from 2013-17.

    That bonus money includes $6M from Ratliff's last extension in 2011 and $3.66M from the restructure last year.

    That's $9.66M that may be recoverable.
  9. 17yearsandcounting

    17yearsandcounting Benched

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    The Cowboys should have went after him after he started swinging at the owner in the locker room.
    PA Cowboy Fan likes this.
  10. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    This case will not be forfeiture of salary. It's an independent fraud case seeking punitive and possibly nominal damages for Jay Ratliff defrauding the organization.
  11. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    Leave it to a lawyer to get it right. The contract is binding. There is no way we would get cap relief for it. Jerry can sue Ratliff for specific performance violations if he can prove Ratliff was doing all this on purpose.

    If he can prove it.

    The thing is someone as wealthy as Jerry might not even care if he can prove it as long as he forces Ratliff to spend a whole lot of money for lawyers. Revenge is a dish best served cold.
    casmith07 and dogberry like this.
  12. bkight13

    bkight13 Capologist

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    I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how paying back bonus money wouldn't be covered under the CBA. Bonus money is considered an advance on future salary. Refusing to play would be like retiring, only to unretire when released.
  13. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    It's hard to give an example because businesses do not operate with salary caps. But the salary cap and the performance or breach of his contract are not tied together.
  14. Kristen82

    Kristen82 Benched

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    This does seem something more suited to civil court.
  15. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    See below.

    ^ That. Particularly when your organizational/in-house litigation team is made up of salaried employees that get paid what their contracts say regardless of how much time they spend working on the case. Not the same for an individual client seeking independent counsel.

    Luxury of being an incorporated business. Protection from individual liability, and similarly the ability to file actions as an entity and not an individual. Ratliff basically is in a lose-lose situation, regardless of the outcome of the litigation.
  16. bkight13

    bkight13 Capologist

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    So then if Ratliff agreed to pay back most of his signing bonus before it went to court, then that would be counted as a refund and should be credited back against the cap. When an insurance company pays on a policy, that is considered a refund and it's not counted against the cap.
  17. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it go to an arbitrator like all other money grievances between teams and players?
  18. casmith07

    casmith07 Attorney-at-Zone

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    No, that's not how it works. You don't "refund" wages earned that go reported on a W-2 the following year.
  19. bkight13

    bkight13 Capologist

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    We'll just agree to disagree. Bluefin posted the section of the CBA that specifically covered this type of situation. You keep saying that it's not covered by the CBA, but everything about contracts, salaries, arbitration and the cap is covered by the CBA,
  20. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    Not an expert on the topic, but I would think that IF the Cowboys "win" vs Ratliff and that he gave the Cowboys back money that was referred to as a "refund" or "pay back" or simply returning part of his bonus then it would have to be applied to the cap as a credit. Now if the Cowboys "win" through say a civil court action and they are awards monies as part of the damages... I wouldn't think that would be something that would be credited against the cap.

    Either way, the Cowboys would have to initiate some kind of legal proceedings against Ratliff (and I'm not sure they have) and then they would have to win (and I'm not sure they can).

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