Assuming both first round picks are in the 15-20 range:

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by silverbear, Dec 7, 2004.

  1. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    Here's the kind of talent the Boys might be looking at... these players are rated in order of their likely draft position right now, IOW the first players listed have the greatest possibility of already being drafted:

    Marlin Jackson, CB, Michigan... 6-1, 200 pounds... 4.45 second 40... played some safety in college, also a dangerous kick returner... probably the second best DB in this draft, behind Antrel Rolle (who will almost assuredly go in the first ten picks), and we all know what a pressing need the Boys have for a solid cornerback...

    Rodrique Wright, DT, Texas... 6-5, 316 pounds... 4.95 second 40... an underclassman, it's no sure thing that Wright will come out, but most draft gurus seem to think he will... he is a big, active tackle with immense potential, but after having suffered through a subpar, injury-plagued season, he might be better off returning to UT for another year...

    Ahmad Brooks, LB, Virginia... 6-4, 250 pounds... 4.6 second 40... another underclassman that the experts think is likely to come out early, the only linebacker in this draft I like better is Texas' Derrick Johson (who will almost assuredly go in the first ten picks)... but while DJ is on the small side, and quite fast, Brooks has prototypical NFL size, and is almost as fast... he could be a prospect to play inside or outside...

    Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan... 6-3, 210 pounds... 4.5 second 40... the second-best WR on my board, behind only Mike Williams (who is quite likely to go in the first ten picks)... folks who have seen the guy play say he's a poor man's Michael Irvin...

    Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College... 6-8, 250 pounds... 4.65 second 40... a very raw prospect, but he shows a lot of pass-rush potential... at times, he looks like a taller Charles Haley... Kiwi is also an underclassman...

    Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon... 6-4, 346 pounds... 4.85 second 40... this underclassman has amazing agility and quickness for a player his size... he could be the stay-at-home anchor against the run that the Cowboys badly need... he could also make a solid nose tackle, if Parcells does decide to feature that alignment more heavily...

    There's my top six prospects for the two first round picks, and any two of them would make this ol' Bear quite happy... it's no coincidence that 5 of those players are defensive players, that's where the Boys need the most help... I do think they could stand to upgrade the receiver corps a bit, though, and I like Edwards' potential...

    And then, in the second round, the Boys could target:

    Ernest Shazor, FS, Michigan... 6-4, 225 pounds... 4.45 second 40... the Boys NEED to find a legitimate free safety to pair with Roy Williams, and Shazor is one of the best in this draft... at his size, he can also play some SS for you...

    James Butler, FS, Georgia Tech... 6-3, 210 pounds... 4.45 second 40... if Shazor is gone, Butler would be an entirely satisfactory option...

    Vincent Jackson, WR, Northern Colorado... 6-6, 230 pounds... 4.5 second 40... a Plaxico Burress clone, hopefully minus the rotten attitude... if the Boys go defense with their two first round picks, they might prefer to look to the offense here (though I'd have no problem with them going defense with all 3 of their first day picks, say CB, DT and FS)...

    Darryl Blackstock, OLB, Virginia.. 6-4, 240 pounds... 4.65 second 40... Blackstock has played in Ahmad Brooks' shadow, but he's a stud in his own right, and is a dangerous weapon on the blitz... if the 3-4 is in the Cowboys' future, Blackstock might be a good fit...

    Michael Munoz, OT, Tennessee... 6-6, 316 pounds... 5.2 second 40... an OL pick here wouldn't be a "sexy" choice, but it would be in the grand tradition of the Cowboys, who seem to draft an offensive lineman in the second round most every year... given the depth and talent of this class, they might want to look OL again this year... Munoz is the son of Hall of Fame offensive lineman Anthony Munoz, and is a solid technician...

    Jonathon Scott, OT, Texas... 6-7, 316 pounds... 5.05 second 40... Scott is an underclassman who might declare, and he has immense potential...

    Chris Kemoeatu, OG, Utah... 6-4, 340 pounds... 5.35 second 40... a wide-bodied mauler...

    Terrence Murphy, WR, Texas A&M... 6-1, 195 pounds... 4.5 second 40... this kid is climbing the charts steadily...

    And then in the 4th round, prospects like FB Zach Tuiasosopo of Washington, OL Sam Mayes of Oklahoma State, OLB Nick Speegle of New Mexico, OT Calvin Armstrong of Washington State, C Jason Brown of North Carolina, RB-KR Alvin Pearman of Virginia or WR Reggie Harrell of TCU might be worth a look... or perhaps QB Matt Jones of Arkansas, who would likely be looking at a conversion to WR... after the early emphasis on defense, I think the 4th round pick should be an offensive player...

    Late round sleepers would include FS Peter Sands from Central Florida, FS Patrick Body from Toledo, RB Patrick Cobbs from North Texas, RB Derek Farmer from Stephen F. Austin, and a host of offensive linemen... this year's crop of offensive linemen is unusually deep...
  2. zagnut

    zagnut New Member

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    Like the list Bear. I could say certain players won't be there, but one only has to point to last year and say Vince Wilfork. (Damn you New England!) I will say, from what I've read, Ngata doesn't sound like a kid who chases money and has spoken about possibly taking his two-year mormon mission. Don't know about him coming out this yr.

    Just to throw out a few more names.

    Shawne "Lights Out" Merriman, DE/OLB, Maryland...6-4/255/Jr.
    2004: 85 tackles, 8.5 sacks, 17 TFL, 10 QB Hurries, 3 FUM forced, 1 FUM recov. Also had 55 tackles, 8.5 sacks, 9.5 TFL, 13 QB Hurries, and 2 FUM recov. as a soph.

    Explodes at the snap and attacks. Likes knocking the crap out of people. Excellent pass rusher, yet also makes a lot of tackles for a loss and in pursuit -- plays the run very well. Has such great agility he could move to LB in either a 3-4 or 4-3, which he played in prior seasons. Can drop in coverage, but not at the level of our past LBers. Likely to leave early. Could really move up as draft approaches. Could add weight and end up 265 pretty easily.
    NFL Comparison: Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila


    Marcus Spears, DE/DT, LSU...6-4/300/Sr.
    2004: 48 tackles, 17 TFL and 9 sacks. Also had 21 QB pressures. Really stepped up as a senior with less talented linemates than '03. Intercepted a pass that he returned 35 yards for a touchdown and forced two fumbles. Also intercepted pass in National Championship game vs Oklahoma in 2003 and returned it for a TD. 2 more INTs as Soph.

    Very strong DE who's just naturally large. Natural athlete. Started out at LSU as a two-sport athlete, but gave up basketball. Highly recruited at both. Team guy who excelled at major college program. Good hands and quick feet. More LDE or 3-4 DL due to strength and lack of speed. Already have a good one in Ellis, but there's a feeling by some scout potatoes (and I agree) that Spears is going to mature into a DT. Has frame to be 315-320 without losing much. Excels vs run. Not a high energy guy though. Might be a tweener and drop. Could really go very high or drop like Wilfork
    NFL Comparison: Difficult one - Reggie White without the Hall of Fame pass rush?


    Kirk Morrison, MLB/OLB, San Diego St...6-2/240/Sr.
    Two-time Mtn West Defensive PoY. 115 takles (72 solo), 9 TFL, 1 INT, 1 FUM forced, 3 FUM recov. 40 TFL in his career. No sacks as senior, but 3 in '01, 3 in '02, and 3.5 in '03. 6 career INTs.

    Seen him all of 4 times in 2 years, so FWIW. Does everything well, but is a violent tackler with terrific instincts for the middle. Best quality is leadership. Has Ray Lewis level passion, and I'm really not exaggerating. He's kind of a spaz on field, but very mature off it. All-around LB skills. MLB who can stay in on the nickle D, but could also be a OLB on the strong side. Watch for him in the all-star games - E/W Shrine Game on Jan 15th. Pretty fully developed athlete - doesn't look like he has frame to add many lbs. Seems like early to middle 2 rd guy.
    NFL Comparison: Takeo Spikes.


    Love Shazor. Seems like too great an athlete and player to make it to the second half of the 2nd rd. Would also be pretty unhappy (pissed) if we drafted Munoz and not because it isn't sexy. I'm fine with drafting either of the other OL you mentioned. A couple more: CJ Brooks, OL, Maryland (6-5/315/)(700 lb squat) and Logan Mankins, OL, Fresno St (6-4/320). Nasty.

    Couple more late round sleepers from ACC:
    Domonique Foxworth, CB, Maryland (5-11/175) - Great instincts for man coverage. Very good speed. Would be great on nickle/dime D and on specials. 5 INT as Soph, 3 INT as Jr, 0 INT as Sr, mainly due to few QBs throwing his way.

    Chris Kelley, FS, Maryland (6-2/210) - Highly rated, mobile QB out of high school. Switched to defense as a Jr to get on the field. Tough. Really developed his senior year. Tore ACL in H.S. (left knee) and as fresh. in college (right). 2004: 85 tackles, 13.5 TFL, 2.5 sacks, 1 INT, 2 FUM Forced, 2 FUM Recov.

    Phillip Alexander, OLB/DE, Duke (6-4/250) - Could slide up to DE, has frame to add weight. All-Academic ACC. Poor Man's Merriman. Was injured as Sr and only played in 1 game (6.5 tackles, 1 TFL, 1 sack, 1 FUM forced and Recovered vs Navy). As a Jr, had 6.5 sacks, 18.5 TFL, 2 FUM forced and 2 FUM recov. Might be Med RS.

    Orrin Thompson, DE/DT, Duke (6-6/320) - Huge and smart w/ good productivity. All-ACC Academic Honor Roll in Psychology. Not even a little fat. Good movement skills. 2004: 50 tackles, 2.5 TFL. Might be an OT candidate.

    LeRoy Hill, S, Clemson (6-0/220) - MLB will make switch to SS in pros and be an excellent 3rd or 4th safety and pro bowl level special teamer. At best near the line. 2003: 145 tackles, 27 TFL, 8 sacks, 3 INTs; 2004: 106 tackles, 19 TFL, 8 sacks.
  3. Bobo

    Bobo New Member

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    I'd add Kevin Burnett to that list. 6-3, 235, 4.55 114 tackles this year. I'd guess he'd be available in round 2.
  4. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    I tried to be realistic when it came to my projections, that's why you don't see Cedric Benson or Derrick Johnson on my projections... but if any of the marquee prospects fall, of course I'd be ecstatic to put them on my list...

    There is a possibility that Marlin Jackson won't still be on the board, that Rodrique Wright will remain in school for another season, that all kinds of things could happen... this is why I recommend several prospects for each pick...

    Most of the "experts" seem to think he will, though of course they've been wrong before... I don't know how you could form any real opinions about Ngata's character, though, my research indicates that his high school recruitment was the next best thing to a circus, with him committing to BYU early, but winding up at Oregon...

    I offer that not as a criticism of Ngata, but rather to point out that it appears that he shopped around for the best possible situation coming out of high school, and that suggests somebody who would keep an open mind as to his future plans...

    Just to throw out a few more names.

    He might be interesting if he moves to DE fulltime, but his lack of coverage skills mean he wouldn't be a good fit at LB in the Cowboys' scheme...

    I'm lukewarm about Spears... he seems like a better prospect as a 3-4 DE than any other position...

    I have seen a few mocks that had him going in the first round, but most seem to have him as a solid second round prospect... of course, it's still early in the evaluation prospect, and these ratings are subject to change...

    And if he happens to go earlier than the Boys' second round pick, that makes it a bit more likely that James Butler would still be on the board, and I'm not sure that I don't like Butler better, anyway... I mean, I just love Shazor's size for the position, and he has good cover skiils, but Butler is a legit 210 pounder himself, and his cover skills are probably a bit better...

    Hey, that sounds interesting... any idea what kind of a 40 he runs??

    I'd want to know more about his medical issues...

    There's another new name for the master list... ever since Mark Tuinei, I have had a fondness for DTs converting to OL...

    Thanks for the input, I'm gonna have to read up on Thompson and Kelley...

    For Bobo, I have Burnett currently rated as a second round prospect, and he has speed enough to make my "short list"... the players I listed aren't ALL the players worth targeting early, just the ones I like the best... Burnett would rate just behind Derrick Johnson, Ahmad Brooks and Darryl Blackstock, on the next tier with the likes of Lance Mitchell and Kirk Morrison...
  5. zagnut

    zagnut New Member

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    Kelley has been said to run in the 4.6 range, give or take a few hundredths. Nothing official though. Due to a lack of experience and early knee injuries (late in High School and early in College), he's probably late 6th round or lower. Not elite, but good enough safety speed from what I can see.

    Phillip Alexander's injury wasn't that serious. He broke a bone in his lower leg very early in the season. He may just want to leave with a better season. He was already a middle round sleeper prospect. I say he could be a Med RS because I thought the college rule was a guy could apply if he played no more than two games. I may be confusing it with college basketball or the rule may have changed.
  6. Bizwah

    Bizwah Well-Known Member

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    I really like this guy. He MAY be the best of the entire group of CBs...yes, even better than Rolle.

    I agree.....he'll probably return to Texas. Brown has a way of keeping players til they're seniors.

    I like this guy better than Johnson. I think the ceiling is higher for him.

    For some reason, I like Edwards better than MW. Maybe it's a lack of separation speed from Williams. We see how a lack of speed makes Key easier to cover.

    I agree that a mid-first might be a good place to take a flyer on this guy. I will admit that he hasn't impressed me one bit. He isn't the dominating type DE. I don't know......He only has about 6-8 sacks this year doesn't he?

    Very risky......Love the size. I doubt he'll come out this year, and I think another poster has commented on him taking his Mormon mission.

    I really like this guy too. But one problem. He's still a Jr. I doubt he would come out if he were projected as a second round pick. But you never happens all the time. If he does come out, and he's there in round two, I'd take him. He'd compliment RW well.

    I'm thinking this may be a little high for Butler. But then again, we took Tony Dixon in round two. :rolleyes:

    I like the potential of this guy as well, but round two? We'll have to see how he performs against the big boys in the Sr Bowl. If he has a good week there, he may move up to rounds 1 or 2. But right now, I think he's more of an early second-day type.....bit of a tweener.

    Another Jr.....If he declares and lasts til round two, then he's a steal.

    He has never lived to the hype.....although the hype wasn't fair. I think he's a vastly overrated OL. He never does seem to stay healthy....a prerequisite if you're going to play for Parcells. I stay miles away from him on day one.

    Nice list. I see you're another draft junkie. Keep up the good work.

    Here's a couple of guys I'd like to see on the second day.

    Brandon Jacobs RB/FB Southern Illinois......Huge (6-4 257) and athletic. Played RB at Auburn with Brown and Cadalliac. I can see him playing FB in Bill's system. I think he can be a Richie Anderson-Type. He will be able to run, block........I don't know about pass receiving.

    The Bradley-kid from OU......Actually, I can't remember the first name. But it seems every week I watch OU, this guy is making a big catch. Kiper seems to think he'll rise to rounds two or three. I don't know. If he's there on the second day, I'd snatch him up.

    And from left field...............

    Adrian McPhereson QB Indiana Firebirds....I know, I know.....the gambling/point shaving problem. Well, we've all been young. We've all done stupid stuff. If he's grown up......and that's one big IF, then he'd be a great 3rd QB prospect. I don't know that I'd draft this kid, but I would think about him as an UDFA.
  7. mbanx

    mbanx New Member

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    I see where Carlos Rogers won the Jim Thorpe award this evening. I have not seen his name mentioned when it comes to cornerbacks on this board though. Does anybody know much about him? He has to be pretty good to beat out Antrel Rolle for the Thorpe award.
  8. Encore

    Encore Never Enough

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    I'd love for us to get Carlos Rogers in the 2nd round.

    I think he's a better cover corner then Antrell. Plus, Rolle would be gone by our 1st round pick anyways.
  9. dbair1967

    dbair1967 Arch Defender

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    if you think he's a better cover CB than Antrell Rolle, you honestly think he'd be there in rd 2?

    Rogers is gonna be a 1st rd pick...this is shaping up to be a pretty fair CB draft with Rolle, Rogers, Jackson and Webster, plus several juniors who could in round 1

  10. D#1Cowboyfan

    D#1Cowboyfan New Member

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    Trade down for Mike Williams of course or you might not have to...

    I think Mike Williams will really slip into the 10-20 inside that range...

    Marlin Jackson would be a good pick up put pete hunter at saftey, and Lance Frazier could play slot....would be good...
  11. ghst187

    ghst187 Well-Known Member

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    I like Carlos Rogers and Marlin Jackson as the best of the CB's coming out. I think Rolle is probably the biggest playmaker. He's just an incredible athlete but he'll be gone by pick 8. I think Marlin is the best pure cover corner. He's just got lock-down skills. Reminds me a LOT of Ty Law. Rogers has freakish athleticism and speed. If he's still on the board after round 1, i will be a bit surprised but yelling for us to move up to get him. I just don't like Corey Webster and I haven't seen much of Justin Miller but Rogers could go anywhere from the #3 CB taken to the #5 CB taken. Overall, pretty good crop of CBs this year.

    On LB's, I, like so many, like Derrick Johnson the best. However, he'll be gone by pick #10. Some mocks don't even have Brooks going in the first round. I think Brooks would help us out a lot adding size and playmaking ability to a very lackluster bunch. We also need Bradie to get it in gear.
    Blackstock in the 4th round would be a steal IMO and a welcome addition. I think we need to flush our current LBs and start over.

    I like Ngata, I think he is close to what we're looking for in a DT, gigantic fatty to take up space and absorb numerous blockers. I like Ngata in the second. If Rod Wright comes out, he's definitely worth one of our firsts. He reminds me of Leon Lett with his gigantic frame and athleticism. Wright could add another 20 pounds and no one would notice. Hawthorn I'm not totally sold on unless he just falls to us late in the first and no one else suits our fancy. He will definitely take up space and be an upgrade over Carson but I'm not sold he'll be a huge difference maker for us.
    I'm not overly sold on any DEs in this draft either. Any or all of them could very well be a bust.

    I think there are a lot of different ways we could go in this draft and its hard to say where most top talents will go off the board. Back when I was certain we'd have two top 12 picks, i was very against trading down because we could've really gotten elite players. Now that its looking like two picks between 15-25, I wouldn't be opposed to dropping down a few spots with either and adding a 3rd round pick or another 2nd. I think there are going to be some good values in the 2nd-4th rounds of this draft.
    Here are some later round guys I like

    Josh Bullochs, FS Nebraska
    Sam Mayes, OL Ok St
    Terrence Murphy, WR Tx A&M
    D Blackstock, OLB, UVA
    Barrett Ruud, LB Nebraska
    M Goolsby, LB S. Miss
    Gabe Watson, DT, Michigan
    Marcus Curry, CB, Michigan
    David Baas, OG, Michigan (no one knows where he'll go but one of the best OGs to come out in a long time)
    Brodney Poole, FS, OU
    Geoff MacArthur, WR, Cal
    AJ Hawk, LB, Ohio St
    Dusty Dvoracek, DT, OU (some off-field problems will drop him to the third round or later but he's a monster)

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