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Before you say we draft poorly

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by XxTDxX, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    All players drafted in 2009 and earlier would be on their 2nd contract.

    Mike Jenkins would have received the same contract that went to Carr if Jenkins had been a great pick. The fact that he was not a great pick is now irrelevant.

    If 2009 and earlier draft picks were great, they would require the same contract that you could give to a Free Agent.

    If 2009 and earlier draft picks were not worth a signifianct contract, then they would provide great depth either because they're not significant contributors.

    Summary: Draft picks in 2009 and earlier are irrelavent to the 2013 season due to Free Agency.
    CowboyMike likes this.
  2. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    OK, lets go with this

    Exhibit A: lets say we draft great and have talent

    Exhibit B: 8-8, 8-8, 5-5

    question: what is the reason?
  3. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Neither were drafted in 2010 or later, so they're both obviously outside the point of this thread. But to your general point, I'd say that's that's a feather in the cap of the scouting department, and a black mark on the cap of the various coaching staffs.
  4. Common Sense

    Common Sense Well-Known Member

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    By "various coaching staffs," you're almost exclusively talking about Garrett's offense.
  5. GimmeTheBall!

    GimmeTheBall! Junior College Transfer

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    While I was out exploding cans with firecrackers you were compiling those lists. I appreciate it.
  6. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Not if you're partially referring to the 2006 drafting of Anthony Fasano.
  7. Smith22

    Smith22 Well-Known Member

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    Nice original post. I don't think talent is an issue. Bottom line in my opinion is, the lack of a team identity. We pay Carr lots of money and draft Mo, then switch to a defense that doesn't require the talent at corner.

    Then we target players for a 3-4 defense and switch to a base 4-3 and see a player like Carter struggle.

    Can anyone honestly say this team has had any sort of offensive or defensive identity?

    Other than being a .500 team and running a lot of shotgun, I know I can't.
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  8. Common Sense

    Common Sense Well-Known Member

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    Right. The only time period where one of the second-round tight ends in question wasn't being coached by Garrett was during Fasano's rookie season. Garrett gets here, decides he can't figure out how to use him, and ships him off to Miami. The team drafts Bennett. Can't figure out what to do with him, gone. The team drafts Escobar. Can't figure out how to get a top 50 pick on the field... stop me when you see the pattern. The "black mark" you mentioned really only refers to one offensive-coordinator-turned-head-coach.
    TrailBlazer likes this.
  9. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Ok, well. That's why I used the word 'various.' I didn't look it up prior, but I knew it was going back a ways for that Fasano pick, and since it predated both Garrett's and Wade's tenure with the team, it looks like it was a sensible word to use.
  10. Ender

    Ender Well-Known Member

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    What? How is jenkins not panning out irrelevant. If he were a good pick that played well enough earn a contract as lucrative as Carr then we probably wouldn't draft Caliborne, a pick that cost a first and a second. That alone makes it extremely relevant. When you've drafted poorly for a decade drafting well for 3 drafts is merely making up for the mistakes of previous draft. We basically have to keep addressing the same positions of past bust. If you draft well you dont have to use big money on free agents to address draft blunders. Your argument makes zero sense.
  11. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    He's saying that Carr's money would have gone to Jenkins as his second big contract would have demanded had he played at a higher level. The argument is that you have to use the first-contract windows for your draft picks exceptionally well, and then be judicious on who you extend on second or third contract deals. That makes perfect sense, overall. The Devil, as always, is in the Details as to which second and third contracts were worthwhile and which represent miscalculations and overpayments.
  12. JackWagon

    JackWagon Well-Known Member

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    And dez is easy to shut down ... roll double coverage to his side of the field. He disappears. Why .. because he doesn't know all the plays for the other WR positions limiting himself to one position. Dumb player is dumb.
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  13. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Any player who can demand safety support from the split end position is not easy to shut down, by definition.
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  14. JackWagon

    JackWagon Well-Known Member

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    disagree ... 2 catches a game is limiting the player ... Top WRs like #Megatron and Fitzgerald beat double coverages and move around to other positions to get open.
  15. perrykemp

    perrykemp Well-Known Member

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    Agreed -- he is obviously a very good player. The question with Dez at this point is he the bonefide #2 WR in the NFL as many on CZ annointed him earlier in the season.

    Or is he one of the top 3 WRs in the NFC -- which would make him Probowl worthy, etc.

    Or is he something else?
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  16. mrmojo

    mrmojo Well-Known Member

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    What is Eways title? Does he contribute to personnel decisions? If so he is going a heck of a job and is the type of person the front office needs.....probably wont happen...but this organization needs this...
  17. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    The gulf between 'easy to shut down' from your first post, and Megatron and Fitgerald in your current one is big enough to drive both the Eagles and the Giants new bandwagons through. However you slice it, Dez is not easy to shut down.

    And, i agree, perry that he's not currently impacting games the way a top WR in the entire league ought to be impacting games. I'm not sure that most of that ought to be on Dez, but it's definitely true.
  18. Spectre

    Spectre Well-Known Member

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    The Escobar and Claiborne picks are encroaching on bust status (primarily based on draft position). And it's convenient to cite only back to 2010 as 2006-2009 are full of bust after bad pick. Still, good post and interesting comparison on the past 3 drafts.
  19. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Escobar is a rookie who needed to add strength from the get-go at a position behind a HoF caliber player where you don't traditionally step in and contribute quickly to begin with. And he's caught the ball well when he's been in the lineup. He's far from 'encroaching on bust status.'

    Claiborne has definitely been a disappointment, but he gives us quality snaps and is also not a bust. I'd agree he's not on track to earn a lucrative second contract, and he's had issue staying on the field.

    The timeframe is obviously constrained to Garrett's drafts. Other than that, I agree, it was a good OP.
    CowboyMike likes this.
  20. CyberB0b

    CyberB0b Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    We keep hyping up a lot of the players selected over the last 3-4 years, but how well have we really done?

    Not going to comment on this year's draft. Still early.

    2012:

    Claiborne - We traded up to #6 for this guy? Can't stay healthy, can't play.
    Crawford - Who knows?
    The rest of the draft was terrible. Matt Johnson FTW

    2011:

    Smith - I really liked this pick, but the kid hasn't played up to his draft status. Not a lockdown LT. Just OK
    Carter- Can't stay healthy and has regressed a ton this year. Looks like his work ethic is gone.
    Murray - Can't stay healthy.
    Harris - Good contributor.

    2010:

    Bryant - Can't put a complete game together. People saying he is # 2 behind Calvin are smoking something. He still has a lot of work.
    Lee - Can't finish a season.
    The rest of the draft was terrible.

    2009: LOL

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