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***Blame defense thread***

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by BrAinPaiNt, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. dexternjack

    dexternjack World Traveler Zone Supporter

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    Not ignoring it, just think it is unfair to continually blame the defense. They need some help from the offense to win games because, as you have pointed out, they are not as good as billed.

    Ryan is doing the best he can with this M.A.S.H. unit and they need some help. There are plenty of times to blame the defense but I don't think last night was one of them. On the road against Atlanta facing that offense and we gave up one TD, that was good enough to win if the offense showed any signs of life before 54 minutes remaining in the game.
  2. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    I think it's fair to blame anyone who deserves blame. Just because someone or something deserves more blame than someone or something else, that doesn't absolve everyone or everything else.
  3. WV Cowboy

    WV Cowboy Waitin' on the 6th

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    For me, I'm not a stat guy.

    I admire you guys that have the resources, and the knowledge to compile all of the stats and put them out here. Appreciate it.

    But in the end, like I said for me, ... football is about taking the little brown pill and physically putting it across the other teams goal.

    And conversely, your job is to prevent the other team from taking said brown pill and putting it in your goal.

    In today's NFL, when teams that are good at putting that brown pill across the other teams goals, such as the NYG and the ATL can only do that one time, .. I will be looking elsewhere to see why I lost.

    Was the defense perfect, or dominating? No. They can improve, but I thought they did a good job of keeping ATL out of the EZ, while waiting and waiting and waiting for the offense to finally show up.
    I'm sure they got tired and frustrated waiting.

    Holding the Giants and the Falcons to one TD is actually impressive to me.

    You will lose a lot in the NFL only scoring 13 pts.
  4. coogrfan

    coogrfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes and no.

    Dallas scored w/approx 5:20 remaining to make it a 3 point game. ATL got the ball at their own 20. At that point the defense had one job: get the ball back with enough time for the offense to have a chance to win the game. They utterly failed in that task, just as they had done earlier this season against SEA and BAL under similar circumstances.

    As far as I'm corncerned the D must bear an equal share of the blame not only for this defeat, but for our poor overall record to date.
  5. Nation

    Nation Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Spot on. Atlanta had the ball with 1st and 20 on their own ten yard line with 5:15 left in the game and Dallas needing to score a field goal to tie the game. The defense got us the ball back with 22 seconds left in the game and Dallas needing to score a touchdown to tie the game. That is a failure in every sense of the word. If they committed the offensive equivalent of that in the clutch moments of the 4th quarter Garrett, Romo, and the rest of the offense would be raked over the coals for it.
  6. WV Cowboy

    WV Cowboy Waitin' on the 6th

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    Yes, they failed in the last 5 minutes, .. the offense failed the other 55.

    Perhaps they were tired, maybe good play-calling, poor tackling. I don't know.

    Had we been up 26-16, holding them to a FG (once again) would have been enough.

    Maybe the blame should go 80-20 or even 70-30 for offense-defense, but all in all, only giving up one TD can win games.
  7. coogrfan

    coogrfan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, not buying it. Within the context of that game the defense was every bit as bad as the offense.

    On Sunday night our defense had zero takeaways, failed to force a punt after the 6 minute mark of the second quarter, and allowed eight plays of 20 yards or more. For the game they allowed ATL to drive at least 60 yards on six of nine possessions. In the second half the D allowed 60 yards or more on all four of ATL's 2nd half possessions (during which the Falcs would hold the ball for over 18 minutes); but for a missed fg the Falcons would have scored on all of those possessions.

    It was, in a nutshell, a dismal performance.
  8. WV Cowboy

    WV Cowboy Waitin' on the 6th

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    Not sure what you are watching, .. you do know this is the NFL, right?

    Like I said, I'm not really a stat guy, .. I like the bottom line, .. so here is a bottom line stat for you.

    Atlanta was the only team to be held to less than 20 points and still won the game this past weekend.

    Our defense was adequate enough if the offense does it's job.
  9. coogrfan

    coogrfan Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps...or perhaps the O might have scored more if:
    • the D hadn't allowed ATL to hold the ball for over 18 minutes in the second qtr;
    • the D had managed to force a punt in ATL territory at any point after halftime, thereby giving the O better field position;
    • the D had been able to give the O a fighting chance to win the game on the final possession by getting a stop before ATL was able to run the clock down under 30 seconds.
    Imho, blaming one side of the ball over the other is missing the forest for the trees. Everything that happens during the course of a game is interrelated.
  10. WV Cowboy

    WV Cowboy Waitin' on the 6th

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    I agree, and I do blame both, just not 50/50.

    And you say the offense would have had a better chance if the 'D' did this this and this.

    Both teams had 9 possessions.

    We should score more that 13 pts. If not we will lose a lot.
  11. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    And had the defense generated some turnovers (or hell even one) we may have been able to win.
  12. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    We had eight true possessions, because our last one started at our own 20 with only 17 seconds left -- not exactly enough time to score, barring a miracle.

    Based on the number of possessions, where they started and the average points scored by an average offense against an average defense on those possessions, our offense should have scored 11.8 points. We scored 13. The Falcons should have scored 11.2 points. They scored 19.
  13. dexternjack

    dexternjack World Traveler Zone Supporter

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    Sometimes you got to throw out the fancy stats, trends or whatever and look with your eyes, gut and instinct.

    Fact of the matter is..our defense played on their heels all game only to surrender the late TD all the while waiting for the offense to do something. At some point our offense has to control the flow of the game and not the opposing offense.

    I agree that the defense should get some blame but it is no where near 50/50. We don't have the Bears defense here, they need some offensive help.
  14. WV Cowboy

    WV Cowboy Waitin' on the 6th

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    Yea, you're right, only 8 true possessions, .. although one started at their 32. If we score 7 there, it sets a different tone.

    All of that other stuff is just gibberish to an old school football guy like myself.

    All I know is when I look at today's NFL, .. 13 points from your offense won't win many games.

    And also in today's NFL, if you hold the other team to less than 20, if you have a decent offense, you should win that game.

    The defense can always improve, but if you don't feel that holding the Giants and Falcons offense's to one TD is a good thing, we'll just disagree.
  15. coogrfan

    coogrfan Well-Known Member

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    Wait a second...this wasn't one of those games where the D was constantly faced with defending a short field because the O was turning the ball over. ATL had nine possessions, eight of which began 79 yards or farther from our EZ.

    What did our D do with this superb field position? We forced only two punts for the entire game. The other seven drives ended on points plays for ATL.

    I'm sorry, but that's pathetic.


    We don't have the Pats O, either.

    What we have is a unit with a grossly substandard, patchwork OL; a RB corps that is missing it's best player; and a group of receivers that is lacking in both depth and consistency. Under the circumstances it would be nice if our D would occasionally give Romo and co out a short field via a takeaway or by forcing a punt deep in enemy territory.

    Fixing the D was the front office's clear priority in this past offseason. Virtually all of the team's resources (FA and the draft) were expended to that end. It is not unreasonable to ask the side of the ball that received the lion's share of the attention (the D) to take up the slack for an offense that had (and still has) clear and obvious deficiencies that had to go unaddressed.
  16. dexternjack

    dexternjack World Traveler Zone Supporter

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    And yet they gave up only 19 points on the road in Atlanta. 90% of us would have taken that in a second if asked before the game.

    Yes, the defense could not get the ball back on their last drive, but it should have not come down to that, again. We get two TD's instead of two FG's somewhere before that, it would not have mattered.
  17. coogrfan

    coogrfan Well-Known Member

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    That's pointless speculation. There's no way to know how the rest of the game plays out if Dallas had scored td's instead of fg's. Maybe Garrett gets more aggressive in his play calling and we wind up either scoring more or turning the ball over; maybe he gets more conservative and we try to hang on to the lead. Who knows?

    We do, however, know what did happen: our D got worked. The fact that they held ATL under 20 points is only of signifcance to people who bet the under.
  18. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    I didn't say anything about the Giants game.

    I'm talking about the Falcons game, when the Falcons drove the length of the field almost every time they had the ball.

    And does the defense get credit for Atlanta missing more relatively short field goals than our previous 47 opponents combined? If Atlanta had made those and scored 25 points instead of 19, would your opinion of the defense's performance change?
  19. WV Cowboy

    WV Cowboy Waitin' on the 6th

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    I was not overly impressed with either unit, but I will hang my hat on feeling that 13 points won't win many games in the NFL.

    Holding the other team to 19 gives you a chance to win.

    Those other two FG's would change things as you say. But we did force them to attempt a FG, .. and didn't allow them to get close enough for a gimme. Their kicker should have made them maybe, but no FG is a sure thing what with the snap, hold, placement, and the kick itself.

    Maybe we just aren't good enough to beat ATL.
  20. coogrfan

    coogrfan Well-Known Member

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    I think this is probably the most accurate statement in this entire thread.

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