BTB | The Cowboys Make The Playoffs If:

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by percyhoward, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

    12,745 Messages
    12,076 Likes Received
    It's always good to be reminded that there are two QB in every game.

    By One.Cool.Customer on Jun 29 2013, 6:58p

    Today, winning in the NFL is all about passing efficiency. The best offenses are those that pass the ball the most effectively, the best defenses are those that prevent their opponents from passing effectively. The best teams in the league are those that do both.

    One way to understand which teams are particularly good at both is by looking at the offensive- and defensive passer rating.

  2. dez_for_prez

    dez_for_prez Active Member

    1,049 Messages
    9 Likes Received
    Wow. Our pass defence has been abysmal.
  3. pgreptom

    pgreptom Well-Known Member

    1,604 Messages
    238 Likes Received
    I knew it was bad.. but I did not know it was atrocious.
  4. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

    27,904 Messages
    19,861 Likes Received
    I think the offensive turnovers and the lack of a running game to burn the clock both negatively affect the defense.
    jobberone and Big D like this.
  5. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

    36,147 Messages
    18,278 Likes Received
    It always will, to some degree.
    But take 2011, for example. The run game was not horrid and the offense turned it over very, very little. Yet, the defense passer rating was still 25th in the league.
  6. Sarge

    Sarge Red, White and brew... Staff Member

    25,028 Messages
    11,300 Likes Received
    Our pass defense is as bad as our running offense. They both have to be a lot better or we can forget about being a factor. IMHO, that's a lot to ask for... but it is possible. Play ball!
    Big D likes this.
  7. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

    43,820 Messages
    3,379 Likes Received
    Fact is that a running game can help

    run game not horrid. Really. It was pathetic- how about that?

    Fact is that a running game can help you out in a lot of ways. We have not had a decent one in years. An ability to run the clock and keep the other O on the bench can come in kind of handy. Not to mention making the D respect the run inside the 10 which we have not been able to do for a very long time.
  8. Sarge

    Sarge Red, White and brew... Staff Member

    25,028 Messages
    11,300 Likes Received
  9. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

    49,957 Messages
    13,249 Likes Received
    Yet even that doesn't tell the complete story. We had the #3 passing offense in the league but the #31 rushing offense. We had the #24 team defense, #19 passing defense and #22 rushing defense. We finished 8-8 and Indy 11-5. They were worse than us pretty much all around except RZ performance. We had basically the same TO and pts diff. They had an easier schedule and played well in the RZ and had a decent 4th QTR QB performance. We had better QB play but worse RZ performance esp on D.

    I strongly agree passing offense and defense correlate to winning. Scoring more pts than the other team correlates 100% though and there is a great deal that goes into that formula including ST play, TOs, RZ performance, % drives resulting in a score, % of TDs in the RZ, rushing efficiency, avg length of scoring drives, yada.
    percyhoward likes this.
  10. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

    36,147 Messages
    18,278 Likes Received
    Oh, I know the run game was still bad in 2011. Not as horrid as in 2012 but still bad.
    My point had way more to do with his comment on blaming the offense for the defenses suckiness, and using turnovers as one of the reason. The fact was that the offense turned it over very little in 2011.
    Of course, we all know the run game has been bad and we all want more for very obvious grade school level reasons. The very ones you mentioned , actually.
  11. blindzebra

    blindzebra Well-Known Member

    10,472 Messages
    2,017 Likes Received
    The biggest issue is turnover ratio.

    We need to take better care of the ball but getting more takeaways will get us over the hump.
    Wishbone82, 5Stars and jobberone like this.
  12. TheFinisher

    TheFinisher Well-Known Member

    3,441 Messages
    2,509 Likes Received
    The best offenses are not those that pass the ball most effectively, it's the ones that score the most points.

    Like the article says, we rank 5th in pass efficiency since Romo's been here... but his last 4 seasons we've also ranked 15th, 15th, 18th and 14th in points scored. That's not a good offense, that's the definition of average.
    PA Cowboy Fan and jobberone like this.
  13. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

    49,957 Messages
    13,249 Likes Received
    Yep. Generally speaking, the team that scores the most points....wins.
  14. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

    49,957 Messages
    13,249 Likes Received
    Absolutely. NE scored way more points than anyone else (they still didn't win the SB). They also scored almost 50% of the time they got the ball which was way way better than anyone else. They were amongst the leaders in first downs. Their D wasn't that great. But they didn't have to defend as often as other teams. Their running game wasn't that great either but it was decent and they used the pass to 'run' the ball. Their avg yards per pass was lower than many of the offensive leaders. Their takeaway diff was +25 and ours was....yep you guessed it....-13. Ta Da. One of the few teams to do well with a neg takeaway diff was Indy. Wash is a great example of ball control via the run. So running the ball is still germane.

    Teams can't score well without the ball.
  15. Reverend Conehead

    Reverend Conehead Well-Known Member

    2,528 Messages
    1,807 Likes Received
    I thought the article was over-simplified. There are a lot of ways your team can fall apart. One is a bad pass defense, yes. Others are a poor O-line, lack of a running game, lousy turnover ratio, among others. These were all problems.
  16. EGG

    EGG Well-Known Member

    6,620 Messages
    2,668 Likes Received
    Great catch. The offensive passing ranking is a bit of a lie, when you're forced to get all of your yards passing your pass ranking becomes suspect. The defensive rankings are pretty indicative though,,, horrible!
  17. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

    49,957 Messages
    13,249 Likes Received
    Thanks. And yep, not a lot to like about last years defense at least the one that finished the season. I'm actually looking forward to seeing how well the new D does. Obviously you can't make predictions that matter a lot right now but the potential is there IMO. I love the LBs.

    Not a lot to like about the rush offense either BTW.
  18. jobberone

    jobberone Kane Ala Staff Member

    49,957 Messages
    13,249 Likes Received
    BTW, I'm certain PH knows all that. I was just filling in around the edges of what he posted and generating some discussion in the offseason. Passing efficiency and pass defense is highly correlated with winning. It just isn't predictive. The only think predictive about football is the final score. Obviously you can't leave out all the other goodies though.
  19. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

    12,821 Messages
    496 Likes Received
    No, they weren't talking about pass ranking which is measured in the NFL by yards. They were talking about average offensive passer rating which is more a measure of efficiency than it is of productivity. Productivity will depend on the number of passing attempts while efficiency doesn't. The truth is we have passed the ball very well. Our failures in point scored has more to do with turnover differential, special teams play and poor red zone running.

    I will agree that our pass defense has been downright terrible for a long time. The one year where we were really good in 2007 was more due to a superlative pass rush and an unusual number of INTs including 5 each from RW31 and Ken Hamlin that year. In 2009 we were avg in pass defense but that was good enough to propel us to a Div. title, 11-5 record and a playoff win. That year the only reason we were that good was because of how well Jenkins and TNew played. Our pass defense for years has been our CBs with most of the rest of the players in the back 7 doing jack squat. I think we were on the verge of improving somewhat last season but Church went down early followed by Lee and Carter and Sensy played like he had already decided to retire. It just seems like our pass defense has been disjointed for years and the only thing we ever did well was lock up our CBs on an island.

    I'm looking forward to a better performance this year by a renowned coverage expert and a renowned pass rush expert running this scheme.
    jobberone and percyhoward like this.
  20. Fredd

    Fredd Well-Known Member

    4,995 Messages
    2,238 Likes Received
    This article looks like filler material if you ask me...scoring efficiency is WAY more important than passing efficiency. But, the article doesn't take into effect things like time of possession. If you are a pass-happy team that throws the ball around a lot, you aren't going to have the ball as much (time-wise). So, your defense will be on the field attack that is more balances will bring the success...get to the middle of the pack with the run and then see what the passing attack can do if you make the defense worry about a running game.
    the bottom line to me is TOP as long as you are efficient with scoring when you have the ball

Share This Page