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Bush, Obama and Big Oil.

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by MetalHead, Jun 4, 2009.

  1. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    So here we are,about 5 months into the Hope and Change era and gas is going up,rapidly.
    When Bush left office,gas was around $1.60/gallon after climbing to almost $4.00/gallon.
    Today is around $2.45/gallon and climbing.
    So,if Bush was in bed with big oil when the price skyrocketed,Is Obama in bed now with big oil?...or is it just speculators?

    Flame on lefties...I'm waiting.
  2. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    The rescinding of the executive orders to drill in our own hemisphere have caused a speculation driven market to go up and the market's unease about Middle Eastern foreign policy, Obama's vow to tax big oil even further and unfriendliness to the energy establishment in general cause a distrust of the White House and subsequently Federal Government by speculators and energy companies alike.
    Add congressional garbage talk about adding new taxes at the pump and you have even greater market unrest.
  3. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    The recent rise in oil prices has been due to two things, largely: (1) the reversion of the dollar to its pre-crises valuation and (2) the return of risk taking to the market. The idea that oil was worth $30 per barrel in 2009 is absurd. It was complete market failure that it reached that low of a level.
  4. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Gasoline is made by refineries. To refineries, oil is a cost, an input. Refiners make money off the crack spread. They couldn't care less if oil is $2 or $200 as long as there's a larger crack spread and there's sufficient demand for their products with the desired crack spread.

    When oil is high, refineries can be profitable or not. When oil is low, refineries can be profitable or not.

    Don't confuse oil and "big oil" with gasoline and refineries.
  5. DIAF

    DIAF DivaLover159

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    Every single economist everywhere was telling us to enjoy 1.80/gal gasoline while it lasted, because the reason why the price was so low was because of the recession worldwide kicking the crap out of demand. Now with things looking better and demand recovering little by little, as theogt said risk takers are taking to the market once again and up, up, up goes gas. We may not see it get back to the 4 dollar level any time soon, but we will most likely be shaking hands with 3.00/gal gasoline before 2010 ends.

    Somehow the fact that artie didn't recognize this doesn't surprise me.
  6. poke

    poke the older I get the better I was

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    hahaha....wow
  7. bbgun

    bbgun Benched

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    You should be happy. After all, it invalidates the "Blood for Oil" meme the Lefties have been chanting since 2003.
  8. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    And those go back to federal exacerbations of the problems in the market, bailouts causing speculators to adjust their view of commodities and the expense thereof grossly, hence grocies remain high even after the gas prices plummeted and now the gas has come back up like other commodities, and the artificial inflation that printing unbacked money is causing as we continue to devalue our currency by flooding more and more worthless paper bills into circulation, particularly at a time when the dollars monopoly as the world's reserve currency is cast in doubt.

    So yes we have a hard recession in place but Uncle Sam has completely been useless in providing relief and has piled on almost comically to the hardship, particularly since October of last year and even more drastically since the "Stimulus" of February.

    In a healthy economy gas should hover between 2.00 and 2.30 per gallon, any lower and any higher should be temporal anomalies and if a prolonged price below the two dollar mark or above the two dollar and fifty cent mark is experienced then larger economic factors are afoot, in this case the worst recession since the "Malaise" era ad early 80s recession of 1978-1983.
  9. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Bailouts (and to a much lesser extent stimulus) caused the return to risk, not the flight to security.

    Food and energy prices are volatile by their nature and have little to do with government intervention one way or the other.
  10. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    Not entirely so, economic collapse plummeted oil prices, you said so yourself, fuel prices effect all economic ventures, particularly other perishable commodities and when government meddling has insisted upon taxing, banning, and nationalizing companies that have immediate impact and influence in the energy sector you will see what has happened with gasoline.

    Congress was threatening to nationalize oil companies several months ago, that certainly effects the market dramatically and the nationalization of fuel consuming automakers is burdensome to consumer confidence and the stability of fuel prices as well, its all connected in the market place.

    Government help to the market can certainly be overstated and is, but government meddling in the market is all to real and its consequences are more readily visible and true than government aide, basically the best thing Uncle Sam can do is step back and let the markets bleed and realign and heal, unlike the government the private sector is accountable to money and can't spend it indefinitely, a lesson the bailouts largely allowed unethical corporations to escape from having to learn.
  11. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    What can I say other than this is almost completely wrong. Only when it was clear that there were no more bank failures coming did the markets make a sharp return. And that was solely the result of government intervention. Without that intervention, hundreds more banks would have failed and the markets, equity, debt and commodity, would continue to be in disarray.

    Look my job description has both "capital markets" and "oil & gas" in it. I see this daily and speak with executives of large oil & gas companies and investment bankers on a daily basis. There's no reason for me to have a discussion about some "theory" of government intervention. This isn't an academic exercise. This is about what's really happened in the markets.
  12. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    You contradict yourself regularly in these matters and backtrack as well, I don't care what your job description is, I grew up in and once worked in the oil field and am well versed in the dealings of government bureaucracy and political science as that is part of my job description, I'm not prone to making things up.

    I can tell you through MY conversations with congressmen, traders, consultnats and oil executives that Uncle Sam is a large part of the problem in the recovery, sorry that hurts your pride but condesencion won't discard that FACT.
  13. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Working in an oil field or talking to politicians hardly qualifies anyone to speak to the goings on of capital and commodity markets.

    And I don't mean to be condescending at all. My apologies if anything I say is taken that way. I respect both you and your opinion, but that doesn't mean I won't hesitate to call it wrong.
  14. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, as someone who decries any slight (be it real or perceived) directed at you, you sure do spend an awful lot of time posting less-than-flattering remarks of your own. Just an observation.
  15. DIAF

    DIAF DivaLover159

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    Yeah, and?
  16. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    Don't waste your time Rogah.
    Not worth it.
  17. Temo

    Temo Active Member

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    Theogt is right.
  18. casmith07

    casmith07 I'm the best poster in the game!

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    Gas goes up every summer and back down in the fall. Supply and demand - higher demand during the traveling months in the summer with Memorial Day, Mothers and Fathers Days, Independence Day, and closing up with Labor Day.

    It has a lot less to do with politics than everyone would be led to believe.
  19. DIAF

    DIAF DivaLover159

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    What's funny is that by and large the crowd that defended the Bush administration vs. attacks over gas prices saying its supply and demand, not the president's fault is now the crowd attacking the Obama administration for rising gas prices.

    Guess what folks, barring any more economic valleys, the price of gas is gonna be over 2 bucks no matter who the President is now, 4 years from now, 8 years from now....it's economic reality.
  20. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    I understand the trend.
    This thread was created with the purpose of exposing the BDS sufferers.
    So far,they have avoided it.

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