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Carpenter

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by fortdick, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    OF the three LB's mentioned most lately, I think that Carpenter would be the best bet. Playing SOLB, he is tough on the run, toughest of the three. He may not be able to pressure the QB like Lawson or Wimberley, but he is true LB and not a tweener. He would be able to step in and make the biggest impact. Most of all, he is a safe pick.

    Lawson is too small. Sorry, but his speed comes from his light frame. Maybe WOLB, but not the strong side. We all ready have a keeper at that side.

    Wimberley is a project. Granted, he has a lot of upside, but it is two to three years down the road. His pressure comes from running over OT's. He has good speed and good size. How is he moving laterally? Does he have any cover skills? DE is a lot different from LB when it comes to defending the run.

    SOLB's main function is to stuff the run. Carpenter excels at that. He can blitz and has better cover skills than the others.

    Jerruh and Bill . . . make the safe, sure pick!
  2. CrazyCowboy

    CrazyCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Lawson can lift weights and put on 10 lbs by training camp if that is what BP wants........Lawson will be our pick IMO
  3. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    All due respect, but this is flat out wrong.

    Of the three Wimbley would be best against the run and perhaps best at rushing the passer. For a combination of rushing the passer, stopping the run, and covering give me Lawson.
  4. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    That is what they said about AL Johnson. We don't need to take a chance with a LB that has to gain weight, strength, etc. Pick one that already has to tools and doesn't have any needs before the season starts!
  5. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    Tweeners play OLB in a 3-4, the OLBs in college are better fits at ILB.
  6. VoR

    VoR Member

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    Is he really a safe sure pick?
    He is coming off a broken ankle injury and he has character issues.
    Otherwise, he goes even before Dallas would have a chance.

    Also, from his video he looks very instinctive but looks to lumber around to me somewhat. He's pretty thick although has good quickness.

    Again Carpenter, Wimbley, Lawson all have some negatives and none are sure fire picks - but I would take any of them.;)
  7. Wood

    Wood Well-Known Member

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    explain to me again how a 6'5" 241 pound outside linebacker is too small? Most NFL players will put on atleast 10 pounds when put on a weight programs set by coaches. So Lawson most likely plays at 6'5" 250 thru his NFL career.

    Case in point: Pittsburgh (Who I think runs the best 3-4 defense) has these two as their starting outside linebackers:

    Clark Haggans (6'4" 243 lbs)
    Joey Porter (6'3" 250 lbs)


    Dallas
    DeMarcus Ware (6'4" 250 lbs)
    Manny Lawson (6'5" 241 lbs)

    I dont know but looks very similar to me.
  8. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    And the coaches told Ware they want him at 260 this year. Gosselin claims Lawson is 251 now, regardless Lawson is big enough for OLB, its DE he would be considered to light for.
  9. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe you would prefer an SOLB that did nothing but pass rush, but the run is still a LB's primary responsibility. I don't wish to start an argument, and maybe is is simply a difference of opinion regarding defensive scemes, but, I have to vehemently (I have been waiting to use that word!) assert that an SOLB must play run first. Ware got burned early last year on outside run because he was taking the inside line off the ball. You may survive on the weak side that way, but you can't on the strong side!

    The scouting report on Lawson is he hasn't got the strength to defeat NFL linemen. That makes him too risky. Wimberley is a project that won;t come to fruitition for a couple years. He ain't no Demarcus Ware! Even if he was, we don't need one on the strong side!

    Maybe Carpenter isn;t a for sure thing, but he is safer than wither of the other two. JMHO.
  10. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    But how does that equate to strength? 10 pounds of fat vs. muscle.

    From my favorite draft site: http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showplayer.php?key=Manny%20Lawson

    Pros: ATHLETIC, has seen time at both DE and OLB, amazing speed and athleticism for the position, very quick off the bal; great pass rusher with long reach.
    Cons: Tweener at both DE or OLB, could add some weight, not very strong, needs to get better against the run, overshadowed by Mario Williams.

    Most other sites give the same opinion. He would be a good WOLB in the 3-4, but not SOLB.
  11. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Yeah, I don't want to rehash this, but I would just add that for the LOLB, playing the run is a significant responsibility, but not the primary responsibility. I would however say that IT IS generally the primary responsibility of the LILB. You always hear that criticism about 'tweeners.

    Oh, and I would also add that most of the scouting reports that talk about Lawson's ability to hold up against lineman is focused towards him being a 4-3 DE. I've yet to see anyone criticize him in that way as a 3-4 OLB where his speed and agility come into play more than sheer strength. You always hear that criticism about 'tweeners.
  12. Wood

    Wood Well-Known Member

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    - Lawson

    thats the exact definition that Parcells has explained he wants out of his outside linebackers. Pressure, Pressure, Pressure. Carpenter is not that guy. I think Carpenter is more suited for a 4-3.
  13. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    IN the 3-4, which is just the ol' 5-2 Okie with a stand up end, the OLB has run contain on the strong side. Needs to fill inside to the SAM and outside once the DE turns up the run. If you try to cover the sideline with the SAM, you are toast! I admit, that is a college and high school philosopy, but the basics still apply. SOLB keys off the TE to determine run/pass.

    Just to make a point, I have to ask, should the SOLB play run or pass first? If the answer is run, doesn't that make it his primary responsibility?

    Give me Carpenter over a couple of tweeners that have to learn/grow to play the spot!
  14. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    These guys aren't putting on weight eating cheetos, they are working out.

    Canty and Spears are the ones that play like run stopping ends. The 3-4 LBs are about contain, like Ware did last year and Singleton before he got hurt. They have to make sure the rb doesn't cut inside of them or go off tackle on them.
  15. canters

    canters Active Member

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    Lawson did well on the 225lbs rep and the combine, so he ain't a week sister Mary. We have Ayodele for run support, so Carpenter is not necessarily needed for that.

    I still think it is Wimbley or Cromartie.
  16. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    Going by usatoday on just the bench press:

    Carpenter has a 345 max
    510 squat

    Lawson has a 385 max
    also 340 power clean
  17. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    I think it comes down to preference.

    Do you want a great pass rusher who may not be well-rounded?

    Then take Lawson or Wimbley.

    Do you want a lesser pass rusher who's shown to be more versatile?

    Take Carpenter.

    Lawson and Wimbley have bigger upside potential, but they also have a higher bust potential as well.

    My preference is for the safer pick in the first round - Carpenter.
  18. Wood

    Wood Well-Known Member

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    this article outlines why Pittsburgh was and is so successful running the 3-4 because they feast on drafting "tweeners". A tweener is a good thing when it comes to OLB in 3-4. Lawson and Ware were built for the 3-4.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05112/492497.stm
  19. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    Lawson and Ware were built for the WOLB spot in the 3-4. ;)
  20. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    With the asst coaches not having any input, I expect the scouts to really step up with this pick.

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