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Clarifying some issues on Global Warming...

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by trickblue, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. trickblue

    trickblue Old Testament... Zone Supporter

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    I notice in several of these GW threads, many of us conservatives are accused of denying GW.

    That hasn't been the case for the majority of us. I have gone on record as saying GW may in fact be a reality, but I am not convinced of the reason it could be occurring..

    Personally I feel it is a cyclical issue if in fact we do experience continued warming. We know that the earth has done this for as long as it has been in existence. I will not accept the fact that it is caused by humans until I have irrefutable proof. Why you ask? I'll tell you.

    Many of the GW followers insist that the human race is responsible and we need to enact regulations to combat the problem. My issue here is that a lot of this is agenda driven. Now I have no issue with practicing responsible environmentalism... and I do. What I don't want is more government regulation and what the ulterior motive actually is with many of our politicians... raising taxes and gaining more power.

    Those of you that believe our government can run an environmentally safe program for all of the US are kidding yourselves. If you think all taxes collected in the name of combating GW are going towards the problem, you are kidding yourselves. If you don't think it will create more bureaucracies and abuse of money/power, you are kidding yourselves. If you trust your government at this point, you are kidding yourselves.

    If I am going to be taxed and jerked around even more than I already am then I want actual proof that humans are the cause; because I will promise you one thing... if they raise our taxes to combat GW and then down the road they find out it truly was cyclical or wrong, you will no way/no how get out of paying that tax for the rest of your life. This is the same government that taxes us for dying.

    What I want is data more than 30 years old. We've discussed the Global Cooling issue in the 70's and now 30 years later it's GW.

    If it is proven we do cause GW, I have no problem with paying to help combat the problem. Until then color me a skeptic...
  2. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify, Global Cooling was not an area that received much scientific support -- very few scientific articles were published on this issue -- HOWEVER, newsweek did run a huge article on the topic that garnered a ton of interest and attention. Even one of my favorite bands got in on it with the line "the ice age is coming, the sun is zooming in." These ideas never received anywhere near the level of support that the current global climate change perspective does. Scientific organizations did not take the unique step of issuing statements in support of the perspective, etc.
  3. StanleySpadowski

    StanleySpadowski Active Member

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    I think that people are missing the most important factor in the sudden GW religious conversion - a great many quality conservation organizations are suddenly being overrun with leftist whackos. This is causing Joe Sixpack to recuse himself from his previous efforts in making the Earth a little bit better place.

    Just an apolitical bunch of people who cared about clean water and maybe catching a few fish. In the last couple of years a few regulars became almost militant and a few new people with crazed views joined. Instead of working with a farmer to prevent runoff, their first reaction was "let's sue". Not the type Joe likes to associate with, instead of monitoring water quality or picking up streamside litter, he's at the golf course instead.
  4. Yeagermeister

    Yeagermeister Active Member

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    This makes me ill to say but I agree TB. :puke:
  5. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    I also question if GW, if taken as a fact, would necessarily be a bad thing.

    You could make some strong arguments that a slight temperature uptick would be a net positive for humanity.

    Naturally, the worst case scenario is the ice caps melting and land being submerged by rising ocean levels... but a lot of these claims are fiercely debated as well.

    The positives would be increased growing seasons (hence food production) in areas that might not have been able to sustain it before.
  6. trickblue

    trickblue Old Testament... Zone Supporter

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    Exactly...

    The scenario that is laid out to us is worst case scenario and we should be used to the alarmists by now...

    What if it WEREN'T a bad thing. Rarely does the worst case scenario happen...
  7. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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  8. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    i don't think there's a statustician alive who will take a world in existance for many millions of years, review the natural changes that go on anyway (like the shifting of continents for one) and then take a slice of 30-100 years out and call that data out as "special".

    i don't doubt the world is getting a bit warmer. in 83 when going to high school i'd be wearing a jacket around early october. now even in november just 90 miles SW of where i went to high school, i don't need a jacket.

    from time to time a cold front will still rock our world and el nino makes it's presence known. i love those days cause i can stay at home and play in the ice and snow. a hobby of mine i don't enjoy nearly enough in the dallas area.

    the world has survived asteroids hitting it in the past and life went on. life "found a way" so to speak. it always does and likely always will. nature of the beast, i suppose.

    but like i said in the other article you had on this trick, people will read it and if they disagreed beforehand, they'll still disagree now. so they attack the writer, and do whatever they can to *not* consider that maybe it is overblown and out of proportion.

    hey, i'm open to maybe we *are* causing all this. but let's prove it beyond scare tactics and insults. where are the facts *mankind* is causing this? i seldom see those but i always hear from the "mankind is evil" crowd that we're to blame for our wonton ways and we're killing our planet and don't care.

    like all skeptics of GW, i do agree we need to find better ways to things around us and more in tune with our environment. i think all would say that regardless of whether or not GW was a hot gore topic. that's simply the proper evolution of mankind to me.

    funny how those coming out saying GW is not a manmade problem are all "whack jobs". the fanaticals seem to be so insecure they must attack those of other views vs. just sit back with "an open mind" and review the situation.

    finally - maybe like danny white said - could GW be a good thing? maybe the earth is smarter than we give it credit for and it knows what to do, like seasons changing. we don't run and cry when the leaves fall off a tree, do we? well, normally. maybe this is just a longer term ordeal.

    there's a lot of things it could be. manmade is possible, but not the only option we have despite how loudly some people shout it out.
  9. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    I love you trick. But I think I may need to send some hate mail with nude pictures of myself to you for starting another GW thread.

    I am joking...maybe.
  10. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    If paying attention to Global Warming brings attention to wastefulness and helps reduce pollution, energy waste, and dependence upon oil, then who gives a flying poo what the cause is?

    I don't think there's any question that concepts like carpooling, recycling, and attempting to conserve energy in your house and elsewhere are sound concepts, so why do people get so hung up on it as a political issue rather than a humanitarian issue?

    It really is mind-bottling that a bizarre idea like "Let's stop polluting the earth so badly" causes so much division simply because of the political affiliation of the major proponents of such a concept.

    "Oh, I'm sorry Earth. Keith Olberman and Al Gore tried to point out ways that I could not pollute you so much. So, **** you, earth. That'll teach you to hang around with those pansy-***-loving lefties. Get back to me when you have some proof from politicians I approve of."

    It really is mind-bottling.
  11. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I'm all for doing things to help reduce pollutions and all for going after companies who break the law when it comes to pollution and I'm all for investments into alternative fuels. What I’m not for is signing treaties that I feel will have a major negative impact on our economy and hitting consumers with higher taxes in the name of Global Warming
  12. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    :hammer:
  13. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    :hammer:
  14. AtlCB

    AtlCB Active Member

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    The big debate is whether CO2 is actually pollutant, and whether ******** legislation that will greatly increase taxes for something that would (at best) only put a minute scratch on the potential problem are the questions.

    No one here is against conservation, energy dependance, or against legislation against pollution. The environmentalists and scientific community have jumped the gun far too many times for me to want to act on something until the facts are more definative. Acting too soon can be more damaging than the problem that is trying to be fixed.
  15. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    Question.

    If they proved beyond the shadow of a doubt Global Warming was true and people were causing it and we could fix it...Do you have a problem with Higher taxes to fix it or the possible negative impact to the economy that you say could happen?
  16. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    I would really like someone to explain how acting to reduce CO2 emissions, etc. is going to hurt our economy. Many countries have moved forward aggressively to address these issues without having their economies collapse. Economies adapt to new opportunities and you can be damn sure that the big economic players are going to be ready to exploit new markets.
  17. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    No I would have no problem with that but right now too many are putting the cart before the horse. I'm all for research and want to see them look into all possible causes instead of one group just saying that is bad science because your ideal is different than ours. I will say I think the earth is a lot more resilient than what some try to claim. It has seen millions of year of harsh climate changes and this period in time has been the mildest the Earth has ever seen.
  18. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    Then why speak out against legislation that would make these things mandatory for individuals, as well as corporations?

    Also, why degrade an institution like NBC for attempting to bring attention to ways people can do their part to decrease pollution and energy-consumption, even if one of the leads is Olbermann and it's basically a gigantic GE commercial?

    What I see in microcosm on this forum is people who are far too concerned about which political party is backing which course instead of concerning themselves with how they could partake in these courses to possibly help better the earth. And that IMO is something disgusting that really speaks to how horribly divisive the Republican and Democratic parties have gotten. It's no longer what's best for America or the Earth - it's "What's best for my party, or what does my party tell me to think?"

    I drop in this forum every once in a while, and am completely flabbergasted over how divisive something as simple as helping the earth out can be.
  19. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    Fair enough.
  20. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Many countries economy sucks with high unemployment and sky high taxes. If the US was sitting at 10 percent unemployment like some of these European countries most around here would have their panties in a wad wanting the president out of office. We pay around 3 bucks for gas much lower than what is going on overseas that pay around 2 to 3 times higher again the American public would go off their rockers and yes it would have a major impact on the economy. I'm all for finding new and better ways of doing things but not at the cost of crippling our economy based on theories

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