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News: Comparing Schemes: Marinelli’s Cover 2 Vs Kiffin’s Tampa 2

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by CCBoy, Jul 20, 2014.

  1. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Comparing Schemes: Marinelli’s Cover 2 Vs Kiffin’s Tampa 2
    by Reid Hanson 1d ago
    http://sportdfw.com/2014/07/18/comparing-schemes-marinellis-cover-2-vs-kiffins-tampa-2/


    In 2013, the Dallas Cowboys ran versions of the Tampa 2 and Single-High Safety Coverage, almost exclusively. This resulted in the NFL’s worst defense.

    With Rod Marinelli now in charge, the Cowboys are expected to shift the focus more on the Cover 2 defense. Will it make much of a difference? How does it compare to Kiffin’s Tampa 2?

    Let’s take a quick look at the two defenses and see where they differ.

    Tampa 2

    The Tampa 2 is different from traditional zone defenses in a number of ways. The well noted difference is that the middle linebacker (Mike) drops straight back into coverage to protect the deep seam and go routes between the hashmarks. The two safeties will slide back to cover the outside of the hashmarks on their respective sides. For that reason, the Tampa 2 is closest related to a Cover 3 since 3 players are in deep coverage.

    [IMG]

    With safety coverage in deep zone, the CB’s in shallow zone can play the ball aggressively. They want to protect the sideline and force the receiver to the inside of the field. The strongside LB (Sam) and the weakside LB (Will) will cover their mirroring territories between the hashmarks and the field numbers. This can also be executed in a nickel package replacing the Sam with the nickleback (most likely Orlando Scandrick).

    In all of these coverage responsibilities the defenders are traditionally facing the opposing QB. With only shallow coverage responsibility they can play without the threat of being beaten deep (assuming the safeties are reliable). This will allow the defense to play aggressively and jump routes more easily.

    The weaknesses are clear. The CB’s must protect the sideline. A shallow route to the sideline is difficult to defend. A deep flag route is also difficult since the safety needs to cover so much territory to make a play. Worst of all, the Mike has vacated his territory to cover the deep portion of the field, allowing an easy check-down to the halfback...
    LOBO7 likes this.
  2. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    I'm thinking they want to do more 4-3 over with a safety near the box or in it leaving the FS high. The coverage scheme from here vary normally. I still haven't gone back and looked at the diamond coverages like Seattle used. I don't understand it yet.

    They will roll the DBs and also play inverted at times. My guess is they will play more man under and press coverages. They aren't going to use a traditional Tampa 2 much and they really didn't play much last year. I'm not sure what you would call what they played.
  3. NickZepp

    NickZepp Well-Known Member

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    I doubt the defense will be that much different. It can't be much worse but the talent level isn't near as good as last year. Hopefully the players just play better and it actually makes plays sometimes. But expecting a good defense is ridiculous. Marinelli was part of the reason our defense sucked last year. I don't have high expectations for the defense.
    pugilist and fairviewfarmer like this.
  4. cwbyfan72

    cwbyfan72 Active Member

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    The reason our D sucked was a lack of pass rush and and poor safety play. Rod got the most out of what he had.
    ShiningStar and CowboysFaninDC like this.
  5. Nation

    Nation Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    For all the talk of Claiborne and Carr's struggles being around not playing as press man coverage corners it sure seems as those struggles are likely to reappear in 2014.
  6. NickZepp

    NickZepp Well-Known Member

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    And what did we do to improve either? We will still have a poor pass rush and don't really have good safeties.
    tantrix1969 and BigStar like this.
  7. BigStar

    BigStar Stop chasing Zone Supporter

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    I hear you, especially when it seems the Safety position could have been at least attempted at improvement. Instead we get the "gotta see what we have in the stiffs we already have" line that applies to everyone outside of maybe Wilcox. The pass rush was delegated to the 2nd round (not worthy of trading up until that point = panic) and the team rushed the sign backup players they deemed cheap/adequate in FA. Not exactly working all nighters on improving the D... R. McClain? The continual justification is the 2nd year in the D will lead to natural improvement (thought this wasn't possible under RR's D?) and we had 20 DL/injuries excuse that will lead to natural improvement.

    The only real hope I have is that Rod will incorporate Man D to fit the talent @ CB while relieving the burden of responsibility on the inadequate Safety position/play.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  8. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Well, it nice to see that those that aren't able to succeed, aren't allowed to move Marinelli over...as I guess a real comparison between Kiffin and Marinelli was too much to handle then.
  9. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    The consideration of where the safety plays and what the role of the up safety in packages will have a lot to say about how the backside is played.
  10. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    Well, yeah. But they will play as much SPs as they play 'base'. And 'base' is going to be a lot of looks with a lot of different gap control and rush lanes/responsibilities.

    I think your thread is great for discussion but teams play many different coverages with as many looks and play the front seven multiple ways as well. Throw in the fact they are in the nickel/other SPs more than any other formation and it puts the type of 4-3 into the back row.
  11. Fredd

    Fredd Well-Known Member

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    RM's scheme is predicated on the down 4 DL getting pressure and sprinkling in blitzes...if the DL this season can apply pressure up the middle, the defense will be better...the DL could make the secondary look much better
    jobberone likes this.
  12. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    In the Tampa 2

    The Tampa 2 is different from traditional zone defenses in a number of ways. The well noted difference is that the middle linebacker (Mike) drops straight back into coverage to protect the deep seam and go routes between the hashmarks. The two safeties will slide back to cover the outside of the hashmarks on their respective sides. For that reason, the Tampa 2 is closest related to a Cover 3 since 3 players are in deep coverage.

    With the Cover 2 Zone

    Ideally the pass rush wouldn’t allow time to complete the long go routes, the well-executed seam routes, or the slower developing zone gaps.


    In the Cover 2 Man

    In the Man version of the Cover 2, it has different weaknesses than the Zone. It is very susceptible to the fade route. If the CB doesn’t turn his head while trailing, the back shoulder pass can be easily executed. LB’s covering RB’s and TE’s is always a mismatch in the offenses favor and can be exploited.






    This is why it is so important for Claiborne to reach full stride this year. It will take he, Carr, and Scandrick to make this work well. Scandrick will move to the slot and replace a linebacker.

    If Rolando McClain does the transitioning part of his comeback, he would well fit the role for the Tampa 2. He has good coverage skills and when he was playing well, quite a few passes defensed. Such a role, would come in very handy against a team such as Washington, that has two very strong outside receivers in Jackson and Garcon.

    Since the strongside would pick up the tight end, that is a reason why the development of both Holloman and Durant there are so important. As would Carter on the weak side upon a running back or second tight end.

    Time in coverage is very crucial to this defense and why the depth of the defensive line will play very high role in the running of the Tampa 2.
  13. CyberB0b

    CyberB0b Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    The Cowboys didn't run much Cover 2 last year. This guy has no idea what he's talking about.
  14. cwbyfan72

    cwbyfan72 Active Member

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    I didnt say we DID improve anything. Just stating the fact the our defensive problems were not because of Marinelli.
    jobberone likes this.
  15. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Didn't know? What is a requirement for successfully running a Cover 2? The team only had a front desk in a motel lobby upfront...and that affects a Tampa 2 defense and variations, the hardest.

    Maybe that affected how things were run behind the box as well...figure?
  16. Frozen700

    Frozen700 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, people get so hyped up about a cover 2 scheme as if we will roll out every single play, running it.

    You are right, we barely ran it last year.

    I would love for us to run more man cover 2 though. Play tight, trail the WR(Knowing you have safety help) and look to jump the short routes.

    Sounds good in theory though, the Pats ran this pretty good a year ago.
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  17. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I've heard both Marinelli and Carr say that they are going to run more man-coverage this season. Urlacher recently said that the Cowboys didn't run Marinelli's Tampa-2 style last season and will be better this year when they do.

    I'm not sure what is actually going to happen.

    It's seems that they could run man-under in a Tampa-2 shell.

    Man-under would allow the CBs to press the WRs take advantage of these CBs man-coverage abilities, yet they could hand off the deep routes to the Safeties which would keep the CBs in the same general area as if they were playing zone. It would have some of the same benefits of having the CBs in zone which includes better positioning for run defense by the CBs and better positioning by the CBs to drop off into help defense against backs catching passes in the flat area. The complication comes on crossing routes. Normally a man-under CB would follow the WR across the field whereas the zone CB would not. This shouldn't be a big problem because then the LBs wouldn't have to worry about WRs coming from outside into their zones like they would in pure zone coverage. This should make it easier for the OLBs to cover backs in the flat.
    Frozen700 likes this.
  18. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Mo had quite a bit going on last year beyond the defensive scheme
  19. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    Agreed about the pressure from the middle.

    And I am talking about push. Not Hatcher running a stunt.

    That interior pressure also helps a sad safety group.
  20. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    You take back what you just said about Rod Marinelli right now.
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