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Conservatives - Would you consider this?

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by ABQCOWBOY, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Conservatives, if the Liberals were willing to work with us on the question of Illegals, (I.E., much tougher imagration policy) would you be willing to go for a Healthcare plan that covered all Americans?
  2. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    The two questions are largely unrelated in my mind.

    I realize that illegals represent a large portion of the uninsured, but I think the "universal coverage" plans being touted are fundamentally flawed, and I wouldn't want to participate in producing a flawed new entitlement program simply for the side benefit of reigning in illegal immigration.

    Plus, they're never going to do what needs to be done regarding immigration, so I see it as a non-starter. I'd be afraid that if they ever did any "deal" like you suggest, as soon as they had their health care, they'd reverse the immigration policy if they could.

    Right now, they should have the votes in Congress to whatever they want for immigration and health care... so what's holding them up? Oh yeah, the fact that they don't have the support of the American people.
  3. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Not a Government ran program No. I'm not concerned with it for the 1st 5 years it is the long haul. If the Dems wanted to work on lowering the cost to make insurance more affordable so more people could get insurance then great I'm all for it, if it is just another in a long line of mismanaged Government programs then no.
  4. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Here is my view on this. I had a discussion some time back, I don't recall with who so I am sorry for not remembering, but essentially we looked at Germany and Finland. Both of those countries have a form of Nationalized Healthcare and both did very well for long periods of time. The thing that both of these countries had in commen was the fact that they both had very strict immigration controls in place. I am not for Socialized Medicine but, I do believe that Healthcare has to change. The Liberals will not support anything that does not help every American. We don't want a nanny state and we both do not want to support Illegals. Their has to be a happy mediam here. It doesn't have to be socialized medicine, per say. However, it has to cover all Americans because, lets face it, we are already paying to cover all Americans. In fact, we are paying a premium to do this. It makes sense to conceed on this point if it can be set up in a logical way. At some point, we will have to reach agreement. If we conceed coverage for all Americans, we have a much better chance of setting up something that is practical for all.

    That's how I see this issue.
  5. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    isn't that like asking for a reach around after being violated?
  6. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    Bingo. I stated this in the thread which questioned liberals on their views re: immigration.

    I'm surprised 'ol BnA didn't get any props for his conservative viewpoint. I specifically remember you doing your duty a few years ago down at the border patrolling for illegals.

    But I agree, it largely boils down to the American people. That, and too many politicians are scared to lose the Hispanic vote.

    :bang2:
  7. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    ABQ, you're presenting the old either or fallacy as if this is strictly a Liberal view. The problem with illegal immigration boils down to the Conservative party who benefits from companies who hire cheap labor. You'd be hard pressed to find a contracting/construction Co. etc that would typically vote toward the liberal end of the spectrum.

    So, this is not an either or dilemma as you present. The immigration issue is largely the Conservative party's problem. Sure, you see Gov. Perry spending money in a feeble attempt to stop illegal border crossing. Yet, though I don't remember the name of the project which cost several million, the project only caught less than a hundred immigrants by providing cameras along the border which cost several million.

    This is what I'm talking about. Republicans preach about immigration out of one end of their mouths, but their futile attempts only provide lip service to the issue while the other end of their mouth is striking a deal with companies who contract the labor that installs the cameras around the border.

    This is a conservative problem, ABQ. In my mind, the liberals are slightly less than half of the problem.

    Why you fail to see this confuses me.
  8. Rackat

    Rackat Active Member

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    Pretty much.
  9. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if I am going to get a violation warning for my comment?
  10. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    I think our current system would work if illegals were not mucking it up.

    But yes ...... I think all Americans should receive basic care if they are not able to pay for it.

    This would not include

    Abortions
    Dental Work
    Cosmetic Surgery
  11. sbark

    sbark Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    The coverage of illegals in the bill excemplifies that ObamaCare bill has nothing to do with actual Health care or Health Ins. Coverage......its about a payoff to the illegals that in time equates to votes....which in time is power.
    Their votes will be needed to replace the senior cit. votes they are looseing.

    If it was about actual health care.....there would not still be some 25 million not covered after 10 yrs of Obama care......

    Actual reform can simply be:
    1) Tort reform......that Howard Dean admits they dont have the balls to include
    How foolish was Howard Dean’s admission that the Democrats lack the testicular fortitude to offer tort reform as part of ObamaCare?

    2) Health Savings accounts ala Cato institute....along the ira theory....Instead of giving tax rebate welfare via EIC on tax return....allow that same money go into a HSA for those with very low to zero taxable incomes to start up and establish a HSA account---2 birds with one stone.

    3) Govt could provide catastrophic coverage...ie the "big one".....even Reagan proposed this concept....that is essentially what everyone is really scared of......the cancer event etc that wipes out life savings, home equity etc.........
    ********

    In no way can the left even begun to be compromised on this legislation.
    Their intent in the long run is sinister. Dr. E. Emanuel has too many views stated and too much input to be overlooked. The Left shows a "good heart" but operates with a closed mind to acheive their goals.......
  12. CowboyWay

    CowboyWay If Coach would have put me in, we'd a won State

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    This is the entire problem with politics. You give me this, I'll give you that.

    The end result is nothing gets done, and what does get done isn't always in America's best interest.

    These are two completely separate issues. Both need to be dealt with the best way we can.
  13. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    That's the way life works in general. Give and take isn't what makes politics so corrupt, it's that everyone is trying to give as little while taking as much as they can... which I guess is another way life works.
  14. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    What has made politics so bad is that the politicians are trying to look out for the smallest group of people possible, unfortunately those groups have the deepest pockets. Our democracy has gone from majority rule to minority rule, in essence the majority of the "normal" people have been disenfranchised so the the majority of the minority can have a bigger voice.
  15. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    It's never really been about the minority or the majority, I think the country would be pretty terrible if either were the case.
  16. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    For once, I agree with you.

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