Cowboys ALL TIME 53 man roster...

Discussion in 'History Zone' started by Deb, Sep 24, 2006.

  1. TruBlueCowboy

    TruBlueCowboy New Member

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    But how does that justify him as the head coach? If he's a genius X and O guy, i'd rather have him as my defensive coordinator.

    This is a no win topic. No true Cowboys fan will ever put Landry in any position other than head coach, but I think Jimmy and Bill were better personality manipulators and draft day managers which IMO is the most necessary trait of a head coach today.

    Heck, I may even leave Bill Parcells off the staff and bring in someone like Dan Reeves or Norv Turner as the offensive coordinator.
  2. DallasEast

    DallasEast Cowboys 24/7/365 Staff Member

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    To borrow a quote from the movie Highlander...


    "There can be only one."


    All-time head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, that is. ;)
  3. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    I believe only 2 or 3 head coaches in NFL history have had a #1 defense and a #1 offense during their coaching careers. I'm not talking about in the same season. I don't think that's ever been done. Landry was versatile and he created stuff no one could deal with or match. He did it from scratch. His first year he wasn't even allowed to be in the Draft.

    I rest my case.
  4. CowboyMike

    CowboyMike Stay Thirsty, My Friends

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    I think Jimmy Johnson was one of the 2 or 3
  5. TruBlueCowboy

    TruBlueCowboy New Member

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    The Cowboys 90's dynasty offense may have not been statistically the best, but they were definitely the most feared offense for 3-4 years there. Stastically, they did have the best defense, so while it's certainly an impressive stat, I think it's also misleading.

    Again, I don't disagree at all with Landry being an innovator and a genius with the Xs and Os, I just feel that Bill Parcells and Jimmy Johnson better have the personality to deal with the loose cannons and draft day management that are even more common in today's league. I consider it a compliment that I dare not replace him with anyone else as the defensive coordinator because of my respect for his gameplan ingenuity.
  6. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

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    Landry's offenses were in the top 10 of the NFL for 24 consecutive seasons (1965-88).
  7. Screw The Hall

    Screw The Hall Well-Known Member

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    You had me at hello
  8. CrazyCowboy

    CrazyCowboy Well-Known Member

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    That is a pretty good job........

    THUMPER Papa

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    I have my own version of a "Cowboys all-time 53-man roster" but it is based on the players' contributions to the Cowboys and requires at least 7 years with the team to qualify but I won't post that one this time. Instead, I'll go with what I think would be the best team:

    QB: Roger Staubach, Troy Aikman
    RB: Emmitt Smith, Tony Dorsett, Herschel Walker
    FB:Daryl Johnston, Don Perkins
    WR: Bob Hayes, Michael Irvin, Drew Pearson, Terry Glenn, Tony Hill, Butch Johnson
    TE: Jay Novacek, Billy Joe DuPree, Jason Witten
    C: Mark Stepnoski, Dave Manders, Dale Hellestrae
    OG: Larry Allen, John Niland, Nate Newton
    OT: Rayfield Wright, Erik Williams, Mark Tuinei, Pat Donovan

    Mel Renfro, Kevin Williams, Terrence Newman, Everson Walls, Cornell Green
    S: Cliff Harris, Charlie Waters, Roy Williams, Darren Woodson, Bill Bates
    OLB: Chuck Howley, Ken Norton Jr., DeMarcus Ware, Dave Edwards
    MLB: Lee Roy Jordan, Dat Nguyen
    DE: George Andrie, Ed Jones, Harvey Martin, Charles Haley
    DT: Bob Lilly, Randy White, LaRoi Glover, Jethro Pugh, Larry Cole

    K: Rafael Septien
    P: Dany White

    HC: Tom Landry

    OK so here's some explanations...

    At QB I only have two guys because I have Danny White at punter and 3rd string QB which frees up a spot at another position. I would have preferred to have Meredith but White gives me that extra position.

    I have some guys on mostly for STs: Bill Bates, Dale Hellestrae, & Butch Johnson. I want Dale Hellestrae on my team because he was the best deep snapper in NFL history by a huge margin!

    I don't have Deion Sanders, Thomas Henderson, Duane Thomas, or Terrell Owens on MY team because it is a TEAM and I want players who have that mindset.

    Actually, Owens hasn't done anything for us yet and doesn't even deserve consideration IMO until he has played at least one season in a Cowboys uniform. What guys did for other teams should not be relevent when choosing an all-time Cowboys team. So guys like Owens, Vanderjagt, Ditka, Alworth, Adderley, and some others either haven't done anything yet or were at the end of their careers when we got them.

    OK, there's my 53 guys, now I just wish we could actually line them up and play!

    THUMPER Papa

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    People are only looking at what Landry did when he was the HC of the Cowboys and forget that while he was the DC for the Giants in the 50s (even while he was still playing for a while) he came up with the 4-3 defense to help stop Jim Brown.

    Most teams back then played a 5-2-4 defense that was based on stopping the run but Brown was so quick that most DLs couldn't catch him and once he got through the line he was too big for DBs to bring down. Landry's solution was to take a quick, versatile DL and move him to MLB to stuff the middle and move the OLBs further out so that they could cut off the outside running lanes.

    It was quite effective as Brown had his toughest games against the Giants. Once other teams saw this they all went with it and it became the standard defense for many years to come.
  11. Zaxor

    Zaxor Virtus Mille Scuta

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    not the way I heard it Hos

    The 4-3 defense

    Tom Landry invented the now-popular "4-3 Defense", while serving as Giants defensive coordinator. It was called "4-3" because it featured four down lineman (two ends and two defensive tackles on either side of the offensive center) and three linebackers -- middle, left, and right. The innovation was the middle linebacker. Previously, a lineman was placed over the center. But Landry had this person stand up and move back two yards. The Giants middle linebacker was the legendary Sam Huff.
    Landry also popularized and invented the use of keys -- analyzing offensive tendencies -- to determine what the offense might do.
    When Landry was hired by the Dallas Cowboys he became concerned with then-Green Bay Packers Coach Vince Lombardi's "Run to Daylight" idea, where the running back went to an open space, rather than a specific assigned hole. Landry reasoned that the best counter was to take away daylight.
    To do this, he refined the 4-3 defense by moving two of the four lineman off the line of scrimmage one yard and varied which line people did this based on where the Cowboys thought the offense might run. This change was called "The Flex Defense" because it altered its alignment to counter what the offense might do. Thus, there were three such Flex Defenses -- strong, weak, and "tackle" -- where both defensive tackles were off the line of scrimmage. The idea with the flexed linemen was to improve pursuit angles to stop the Green Bay Sweep -- a popular play of the 1960s. The Flex Defense was also innovative in that it was a kind of zone defense against the run. Each defender was responsible for a given gap area, and was told to stay in that area before they knew where the play was going.
    It has been said that after he invented the Flex Defense, he then invented the offense to score on it, reviving the man-in-motion and the shotgun formation. But Landry's biggest contribution in this area was the use of "pre-shifting" where the offense would shift from one formation to the other before the snap of the ball. While this tactic was not new -- it was developed by Coach Amos Alonzo Stagg around the turn of the 20th Century -- Landry was the first coach to use the approach on a regular basis. The idea was to break the keys the defense used to determine what the offense might do.
  12. Zaxor

    Zaxor Virtus Mille Scuta

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  13. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Landry and Schramm were pretty good at managing a draft. Johnson and Parcells can motivate the personalities from their coordinator position.

    Here are a few position coaches:
    Dan Reeves, running backs coach
    Mike Ditka, tight ends coach
    Ernie Stautner, defensive line coach
    Gene Stallings, defensive backs coach
    Norv Turner, QB coach or how about John Mackovic if they want to learn about wine and cheese
    Jerry Tubbs, Linebacker coach
    Barry Switzer, kicking coach
  14. Zaxor

    Zaxor Virtus Mille Scuta

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    Ermall Allen...(probably mispelled) before he died was fantastic
  15. dwmyers

    dwmyers Well-Known Member

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    Tom had defenses ranked #2 in the league but never #1. JJ had defenses ranked #1 in yards allowed in the league but never had an offense ranked #1. Tom had a number of teams ranked #1 on offense.

    Statistically, the best teams Tom had were the 1968 and 1978 teams. JJs best were 1992 and 1993.

  16. dwmyers

    dwmyers Well-Known Member

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    The dominant defense before the offensive explosion of the late 1940s was Earle Neale's Eagles Defense. It was chewed up by the Cleveland Browns and then the Cleveland/LA Rams, and people then went away from the 3 man defensive backfield to a 6-1-4 umbrella scheme (Peter Golenbeck credits the umbrella to Steve Owen, the Giants head coach at the time). The next step was to pull the ends off the line, leading to the 4-3.

    Now, about the time the umbrella appeared, Tom was a defensive back with the Giants. By 1953, when he becomes the defensive coordinator of the Giants under Jim Lee Howell, he has installed the "inside" 4-3 and the "outside" 4-3.

    Steve Owen gave us the umbrella, which was the precurser to the 4-3. But by 1953, Tom already has two different 4-3 variants.

    I'm sure this is one that can be argued until "heck" freezes over, because of all the people who had their fingers in this pie. But it's not uncommon to credit Tom with the invention of the 4-3.

  17. LD Fan

    LD Fan New Member

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    You can make Jimmy the head of scouting. That was by far his strength, not coaching. There are thousands of guys who could have coached the talent he had, just ask Jerry. He was a master talent evaluator. If you like him as a coach, explain his Miami debacle.
  18. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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  19. Stautner

    Stautner New Member

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    I started to make my own list, but after reading yours I realized my would be very close to a carbon copy.

    The only changes I would make are these:

    Dexter Coakley instead of DeMarcus Ware - Ware may prove to be the better player, but he hasn't yet.

    Jim Jeffcoat instead of Larry Cole - I realize that one is a DE and the other a DT, but one position or the other is going to have 5 players rather than 4, so it might as well be DE that has 5. Besides, Too Tall and Jeffcoat can help at DT in passing situations.

    Kevin Smith instead of Kevin Williams - I know this is probably what you meant considering Williams was a KR/WR.

    I also would like to find a way to get Robert Newhouse and or Walt Garrison in there. Newhouse was the best inside running FB in team history and Garrison was versatile and tough and could handle either RB or FB - but I realize there has to be a limit. Doesn't make sense to carry 3 FB's.
  20. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Any all time Cowboy team would be running the 4-3 scheme. Then Ware would probably better suited to play DE than any of the linebacker positions any way.

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