News: Cowboys offense evolves from idealistic to realistic (Sturm)

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Mr Cowboy, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    They "mean" that the Cowboys were able to run the ball.
  2. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    I believe the media really hyped up the 12 personnel as the base offense philosophy. What I really think is that the Cowboys envisioned a downfield passing attack would lead to defenses rolling out their nickel coverages and the Cowboys would go from a spread set to a base set by motioning the TE into the backfield to take advantage of the nickel corner being undersized vs the second TE on a run. And vise-versa with motioning a TE to a split if the defense is in their base.

    Sturm sort of lost me about the "under-center" comment. Defenses will respect your running game in any formation that works. RG3 ran the pistol and that running game was pretty potent. The same with Wilson, and Kaep. Peyton Manning made a living from running PA from the shotgun in Indy and now in Denver. It doesn't really matter what formation you line up in if the running game is getting postive yardage the DC is going to get the safeties/linebackers involved to stop the run. That will still be the first and foremost task for any defense on Sundays, stop the run, then stop the pass. It will never change, ever.

    I'm curious as to what exactly the 12 personnel is really going to do, but if anyone has noticed how dominant Bryant has been then it doesn't matter what we do since he's running the full route tree and has the timing and precision down like this offense requires.
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  3. AmberBeer

    AmberBeer Well-Known Member

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    Ok, you can believe that it does.
  4. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    When I'm correct, I believe myself.
  5. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    The Giants won a Super Bowl by effective play action passing with an anemic running game. Play action is about getting a linebacker or strong safety to commit to the run. It is about numbers required to stop the run, it is about how good the qb and RB sell the run.

    Sturm bases a conclusion on a hypothesis that sounds right but is not true. Otherwise the Saints would not be able to play action pass when Mark Ingram and his 3. Something ypc is in the game.

    It is a trade off between the good that comes from the deception versus the negatives of the qb's eyes not being downfield.
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  6. Jwoo52

    Jwoo52 Member

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    Once the season starts we should see a lot of 12 personnel sets..
  7. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    If that's enough to keep the defense honest, how bad does it have to be before they are no longer honest?

    I didn't count the negative runs but there was more than one occasion where the RB broke a tackle in the backfield. That's ever bit as negative as him getting tackled in the backfield from an OL perspective.
  8. Bullflop

    Bullflop Well-Known Member

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    To be sure, much depends upon whether or not Leary returns to action. With him, we should be OK. Without him, not anything special to look forward to in terms of the OL being very effective. Keep your fingers crossed.
  9. CATCH17

    CATCH17 1st Round Pick

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    As long as we stick with the zone running game we'll be a lot better running the ball this year.
  10. dboyz

    dboyz Active Member

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    Good question. Before I added up the runs I had figured that the numbers would look better than that for the first half. Probably because we were able to get a few first downs running, had some 8-9 yard runs, and most times were able to get some positive yardage of at least a yard or two or three. Even if you average 2.5 yards per carry, if you run it twice you end up with 3rd and 5 which is not unmanageable.

    The second thing that factors into the game is the overall score and how your defense is playing. Obviously if you are not having much success running and you are down 14 points it won't take you long to give up on the run.

    There were some games last year where we could not run it at all. The Bucs game comes to mind and although the numbers in the first half were not real pretty, this game did not feel like one of those games.
  11. coult44

    coult44 Well-Known Member

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    Just curious where you seen Leary do that before?
  12. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    It was amazing how you all predicted in advance of the preseason that we'd be playing with our 4th and 5th string centers all last year!
  13. Oh_Canada

    Oh_Canada Well-Known Member

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    Why is that? Sturm said so??

    We'll have to wait and see, but I have no idea why he's drawing conclusions about Escobar when they're clearly not running the entire playbook and the oline when Leary is missing, Free played his first game at a new position and Parnell just returned. Oh and they played a top five defense and shredded them in the second quarter.
  14. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Forgive me for revisiting something I have been saying lately, but this team does not need Tony Romo to throw for 5000 yards a season. Not that Romo cannot do that, but the residual issues associated with him tossing so many passes means the team is not balanced. This was a central theme of my posts last week before the Bengal game.

    Then after the game I see threads about the team keeping the secret offense undercover for the regular season and I had to wonder what offense that was.

    I'm always amused by giddiness with pre-season success.

    The truth is here in this article. as much as people are tired of the comment, the interior line is not improved and this spoils the running game. The domino affect then takes over because if they cannot run, Romo has to carry the team. More passes, more risks, less clock control, tighter games, and your defense is exposed toward the end because of fatigue.

    And defensive scheme will not change tired players who have been chasing the RG III's and crafty WR's of this league when the game is on the line in the last 7 minutes of quarter number four.

    And while there are some who vehemently argue that this period - last 7 minutes - is no different than any other period in any game, they would be wrong.

    The fatigue factor of the defense married with the lack of running game, which causes the team to either score quickly, or move quickly down the field to find the red zone is again a mystery for the Dallas offense, means games are in the balance late because of no clock control.

    Drafting Escobar was not the problem.

    The problem is this team willfully ignoring the interior offensive line, and perhaps right tackle to the point they cannot run the ball.

    And while this is a passing game now, there still is a hallmark for the running game and working the last quarter where you have the ball more and are keeping a lead.

    That aspect goes down hard for a lot of people here. Me included.

    But there is a serious rhyme and reason to building a winner, and the bromide of winning the battle in the trenches is meaningful, even today when passing is paramount.

    This is the hand they chose to play because they either don't get the value of a strong offensive line and running game, or someone pulling the strings is naive.

    I'd love an 11-5 season, but no running game could end up 8-8 again and the same no play-offs we have seen for two years.

    Balance is not just a DVD by Van Halen. It is how this team will win another championship.

    That balance is questionable at this juncture unless Dez finds a Superman suit in his locker and can transform the offense to the point they find success.

    I believe in Dez, but not an offense without the semblance of a running game. Not so much.
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  15. CooterBrown

    CooterBrown Well-Known Member

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    Well written, well thought out. But, I believe that using a first rounder on a LT two years ago, and a first round pick on a center this year shows that they do value the OL. I do think they should have drafted another OL with the second pick instead of a TE, but you can't have high draft picks at every position, and the draft is not just for the immediate future it has to be a long-term plan. I believe that Smith, Frederick and Free are solid. If Leary can be the player he looked like this preseason, they will have 4/5 of a good OL. Barring injury, the OLine will be better than it has been in several years, the defense will be better, which should result in better than 8-8. I agree that games are won in the trenches, but with these skill players a tie in the trenches is a win.
  16. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Cooter, I acknowledge this team has used high draft picks to secure a couple of players for the OL that should produce for years to come.

    But in the same breath I also have to bring up that this isn't a sudden issue with this team and they have either chosen badly, or ignored this squad for the most part.

    I am reminded you cannot have winners at every position.

    But you also have see this team built with a huge investment at cornerback and the lines routinely are where the coupon cutting is done.

    And like the article stated, this was a problem last year and to be truthful for several years.

    This team reaps what it sews.
  17. ThreeandOut

    ThreeandOut Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and they played the 3rd string running back for most of the first half after Murray was benched.
  18. CyberB0b

    CyberB0b Village Idiot

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    This is the crux of his argument:

    Everyone said that Livings and Berny could be serviceable if they spent some time playing together. What he said is true. They are putting a guy who took a pay cut at one position in a position he has never played before, next to a center who has never played in the NFL before.

    I mean, are you really OK with a Free running out there at guard after playing part of 1 preseason game there?

  19. Double Trouble

    Double Trouble Well-Known Member

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    Sad but true.

    Doug Free has been a disaster for the club since he played ok at the end of 2009. 3 years of failure and he's still hanging on. Shows how bad the OL truly is. No one can hold onto the dimmest ray of hope with a failed player the way Jerry Jones can.
  20. Idgit

    Idgit If you food, you gonna be ate. Staff Member

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    If the crux of the argument is that the planned OGs have both been hurt both offseasons, then it's obviously a good argument. It stinks, but those guys, and Kowalski, to boot, can't seem to stay on the field. I'm frustrated by it, too.

    Yeah, I'm remarkably ok with Free out there. It's not like the guy hasn't started a ton of NFL games. Leary, honestly, I'd have more concern about given that he's never started before and will have missed 3-4 weeks before the Giants game. But even he I'm not to worried about. They're OGs. If they're quick and strong enough, it's not going to be a disaster.

    I also think the fact that the last game was against a really good CIN line is reason to be confident that we'll be able to buy Romo more time than we bought last season. Bear in mind, I"m not of the opinion that the problem last season was primarily with the OL, anyway. It's the defensive secondary I've been, and still am, more concerned about.

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