Cuban/Carlisle/Dirk = Jerry/Garrett/Romo?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by egn22, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. egn22

    egn22 Well-Known Member

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    So all week i've been reading post after post, article after article on Garrett being stripped of playcalling duties, and how poor of a GM Jerry is. And how he undressed Garrett and made him his puppet.
    And it made me think of the 2011 Dallas Mavericks.

    For anyone who watches the Mavs, you'll remember that in the 2011 year, we had just gone 12 straight seasons of winning 50 or more games only to lose in the playoffs. Dirk was labeled a choker, soft, weak,etc. But it was agreed that the team wouldn't be a 50 win team if not for him.
    (before you say it, i know Romo is no Dirk but stay with me)

    Cuban was the biggest loud mouth owner in the league, he meddled and meddled and was always involved in basketball decisions. The year prior to this, he, Donnie Nelson, Rick Carlisle and even Dirk got together and made the decision to take a chance on an injury prone underachieving center who was entering free agency with limited interest. The center was Tyson Chandler.

    Everyone knows what happened after that, but the point is that this wasn't the first time that Cuban was involved in the free agent acquisition process. He was always very vocal about his part of the decision making process. Sure he has Donnie Nelson as a GM but Donnie doesn't make the final call, Cuban does.

    These guys got together and did what they thought was best for the team, and they put together a roster with guys like JJ Barea, Deshawn Stevenson, Brian Cardinal and after years and years and years of the media bad mouthing every decision the Mavericks made they won the dang championship. After years of the media bad mouthing Dirk, after sweeping the LA Lakers, and after beating the OKC Thunder the media still never gave us a chance to beat Miami in the championship. Even after winning two against Miami they still had us losing the series and it all stopped when Dirk made a few big shots and shut everyone the hell up.

    Maybe, just maybe, i could be wrong but maybe Jerry and Garrett made some of these decisions together and maybe they're on to something. My point is, the media will NEVER be on our side. And the local media is even worse. I'm not reading into all of this talk about Garrett losing power and being a puppet and yadda yadda yadda, because if it works and the Cowboys start winning again, all of that talk seizes. Then we're talking about how great Garrett was for accepting the change and figuring out a way to work with this staff and in this system.

    Some of these media guys are getting way too comfortable acting like they're so certain that they know whats best for the Cowboys. They're so certain that Jerry is wrong on every move he makes, and everything they say is negative. There's no hope with Jerry as GM... bullcrap. It's possible. It might not be the most ideal situation but its possible.

    Remember how great Philly's front office was supposed to be? how frugal they were, and how great they were at assembling talent. How strong their coach was, how despite never winning jack spit, they were so far ahead of the Cowboys. Remember that? Remember the media echoing these sentiments?

    I'm a die hard fan, and i'm rolling with the changes Jerry's making. I'm hoping it works out, I don't give a crap what Gruden is doing these days because our staff is in place. Let's see what happens. But why not stop worrying so much about egos and who's feelings are hurt about being "demoted" or whatever. Maybe Garret's a big boy and he and Jerry have reached an agreement on where this thing is headed.

    It will be interesting.
  2. Venger

    Venger Well-Known Member

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    Um, no.

    The closest comparison would be Dirk - Romo. Dirk got no respect until he won the ring, always was said he was the kind of player that couldn't get your team a ring.

    Carlisle has an impressive resume as a coach and a track record of success before he came to Dallas.

    It's enticing to compare Cuban to Jerry, Cuban loves being on the sideline, loves being involved, but Cuban is far, FAR more reliant on smart basketball talent and doesn't inject himself into personnel anywhere near the same level as Jerry does. Cuban learned his lesson quick and early - he brought in Dennis Rodman, and that cured him of that nonsense.

    Cuban wants to win, as does Jerry, but Cuban doesn't care if he gets credit, he knows he will get some regardless of how. Jerry has to land the plane at the controls or the flight doesn't arrive, according to him.

    IAMKING Benched

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  4. Jake0

    Jake0 Active Member

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    Yeah.. lets not ever compare a quality coach like Carlisle who has plenty of skins on the wall and was never ever undermined or doubted at all by Cuban to a hack like Garrett ever again. Carlisle actually is a brilliant basketball mind and doesn't just get the perceived notion from where he went to school.

    Like Barkley said about the Lakers' Princeton offense they were running earlier this year, "I want my accountant to be from Princeton, not my basketball offense."

    For someone who's supposedly so brilliant, I've seen too many Cowboy games where Garrett just looks like a complete buffoon on the sidelines. Just my opinion.
  5. egn22

    egn22 Well-Known Member

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    i'm not comparing Garrett to Carlisle in terms of coaching talent, you're missing the point, and please don't mistake me for a Garrett fan because i'm far from that.

    I'm comparing the ways they've made decisions in the past which included input from Cuban, Donnie, and Carlisle. They've worked together to make numerous basketball decisions, and Cuban is an internet nerd, far from a basketball guy.

    As far as Cuban's involvement, who was the guy blabbering to the media about the CBA and how its changed the way teams will do business in free agency? Cuban took every chance he could in the off season to explain how he's making personnel decisions based on salaries, and the salary cap.
    Why do you think we disbanded a championship roster that included Tyson Chandler who's now positioned the Knicks to be one of the top 3 teams in the east?
    That was Jerr...umm i mean Cuban!
  6. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    Love basketball and that run by Dirk, was one of the greatest shows I've ever seen by an individual player. Amazing...
  7. Zordon

    Zordon Well-Known Member

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    The Dirk vs Romo comparisons are pretty apt. Although I will say Dirk is now viewed as an all-time great player. Even if Romo were to win a Super Bowl, I doubt he'd be viewed as a top 30 player like Dirk is.
  8. jason54858

    jason54858 Gloomy Sunday

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    If Dirk didn't when a championship he would have been an all time player. Romo would have to win a couple to even considered. Not a spot on comparison IMO, but a decent one I guess.
  9. egn22

    egn22 Well-Known Member

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    I guess I did a poor job of emphasizing that this isn't about comparing talent, its about comparing the perception by the media of what is going on behind closed doors by management. in the Mavs case, the media attention both national and local was almost always negative. They always did something wrong according to the media. Same thong with the cowboys.
    And when the Mavs proved everyone wrong, of course everyone forgot about all of the things that were wrong with the point is that the media does a fantastic job of convincing us that they have it all figured out, when alot of the time its just fodder to try top remain relevant.
  10. CowboysYanksLakers

    CowboysYanksLakers Well-Known Member

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    Dirk owns a championship and is a better player compared to Romo their respective sports.
  11. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so.

    Excuse that I haven't read this whole thread, but just wanted to chime in here.

    Cuban hires the best people and lets them do their jobs. He may be a marketer who's in the news more than some would like, but he and Jerry have little in common regarding mangement styles. I do not think Cuban was as involved in basketball decisions as you say. I've been around him and the team in variaous degrees since he came here. Donnie (and Don)Nelson and the coaches too care of the vast majority of basketball decisions.
    Cuban had veto rights.

    Carlisle is far more advanced as a head coach and as a strategist than Garrett--and I'm not even a Garrett basher.

    Dirk and Romo are the most similar (before the ring for Dirk) in how much they were unfairly bashed for the overall team's failures. But even then, Dirk was much more accomplished than Tony even before the ring. He was an absolute warrior in the playoffs--and his team was in the playoffs every year and made deep runs several times. His playoffs stats are some of the best in NBA history even before he tore the NBA a new one in that title run.

    So that is 0 for 3.

    Sorry man.

    I just read your later post....I do agree that some in the media have drawn some parallels--especially reagrding Cuban/Dirk and Jerry/Tony. They were wrong, but they did do some of that.
  12. egn22

    egn22 Well-Known Member

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    Again not comparing talent. And Cuban is a decision maker whether you choose to believe that or not. Cuban wanted to clear the cap space to try to sign deron Williams. Cuban still wants to keep the cap clear to sign Dwight Howard. He's also on record saying that he was looking to sign talented players to low cost one year deals, and that's what Collison, Kaman, Brand, & Mayo got. That's pretty involved, how much more involved could he be? How is this different from Jerry?
  13. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

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    Yes. An owner does get to decide how much to spend on contracts. That is a big part of his job is to sign the checks. He also has to sign off on long term plans that effect spending.

    Cuban, Carlisle, and Nelson all sat down and came up with a short and long term plan regarding all salary cap ramifications and personnel. The actual personnel choices were on Nelson, Carlisle and then that order.

    The amount to spend was Nelson, Cuban, Carlisle. They have an open checkbook (but restrcited by the cap) but have full knowldege of the short and long term effects.

    I personally did not like how they handled it, but that's beside the point. Cuban does not choose the personal or the assistants under the HC. He and Nellie chose Carlisle and Carlise had 1st choice of his assistants, but with Cuban having to sign off on price.

    Carlisle has full control of Head Coaching duties.
  14. BlueStar22

    BlueStar22 Well-Known Member

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    Mavs won a championship. No comparison.
  15. egn22

    egn22 Well-Known Member

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    Jerry won 3. Ready to discuss the actual topic or shall we continue tossing out random facts?
  16. egn22

    egn22 Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate what you're saying but I disagree. Carlisle never expressed an interest in letting Chandler walk. He really wanted kidd too, but the Chandler situation convinced kidd he needed to walk too. Dirk want on board with this strategy either. This was more of Cuban trying to outsmart the league than anything else.we cam agree to disagree but I certainly see similarities in both the owner/coach relationship and the way the media has reported on both organizations.
  17. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, they ALL wanted Kidd.
    It was Kidd who backed out of his handshake deal to stay. That's why Cuban joked that he wouldn't retire his hersey in Dallas now, becasue he went back on his word.

    I'm not 100% sure on Chandler. My understanding was that they all wanted him too but they laid out the dollars and it was decided to spend the money elsewhere. Ticked me off...but that's just me.
    Maybe Carlisle got out-voted 2-1. If so, you are correct there.
  18. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    Carlisle is a jillion times better than Garrett. Carlisle is a truly great coach, a rare difference-maker.

    Garrett is more akin to Avery. Except maybe not even that good.

    I do think Cuban and Jerry are a fair comparison. Both are loudmouthed attention queens who get way too involved in personnel. The difference is that in basketball, one great player makes more of a difference than it does in football, and the Mavs had Dirk.
  19. Clove

    Clove Shrinkage

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    Dirk and Romo are NOT similar, please stop this atrocity. Dirk went to an NBA finals (Super Bowl equivalent) and won tons of playoff games "BEFORE' actually and finally winning a championship. Plenty of winning before winning the big one. On the other hand, Romo has done NONE, NONE, NONE of that.

    Please do your research before throwing mess against the wall.
  20. egn22

    egn22 Well-Known Member

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    Off topic again. Not comparing coaching talent. Never claimed Garrett was equal to Carlisle. i'm talking about the media and how they manipulate the truth.

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