Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by supercowboy8, Jan 11, 2012.
No you don't, Spencer was a 1st rd draft choice for us did he start day 1? No he didn't
You mean Upshaw, right?
Even though Ingram could be a day one starter since he does play OLB, DE and DT and drop sback into coverage and has INTs this year.
Melvin Ingram can't come into the NFL and play every down from day 1 either. He doesn't have nearly enough latteral or straight line speed to cover NFL rb's or te's. Pay Spencer something like 3/18 and address bigger needs in the draft. Replacing Spencer with ingram with our 1st round pick would be like spinning tires as someone else here said.
I agree that if we can fill some needs in FA and spencer walks then getting an Ingram or Upshaw would be a very good pick. Will they make mistakes sure they are rookies but you draft them not just for next year but for the long haul.
he was drafted 28th overall and show al lthe more of a reason to draft this positino early. Its hard to transition too. It takes time this is why you never see a 2nd or later round draft pick start at OLB.
We traded up out of the 2nd round to 28 to get Spencer.
If you draft a player in the 1st he should be ready to start and especially at 14.
why do you think Ingram can't move laterally and cover, he has only done just that the last two years in college. The guy drop s back into coverage and covers RB and TEs already.
Straight line speed, look at the auburn game where he is standing in coverage and a hole opens up to the QB, he goes from flat feet straight at the QB in no time and sacks the QB.
I am not sure that there is a improvement in this years draft . I don't agree with letting Spencer walk just to spend the 14th pick on a player that may not be an upgrade . If Upshaw or Ingram blows the combine up and the Dallas staff are sure that it will be a considerable upgrade , pull the trigger .
I agree it takes time it takes some time for most NFL rookies even top draft picks. But that does not mean you pay Spencer as a top OLB. If Dallas can bring him back at a reasonable deal great if not then you look at the bigger picture not just next year.
Or how about Whitney Mercilus (depending on the combine).
Summary: Whitney Mercilus was the most productive pass-rusher in college football in 2011. He led the nation in sacks (16) and forced fumbles (9). It was a record-setting season as Mercilus topped Simeon Rice's school record for sacks in a year. Like Rice, Mercilus is a fabulous athlete. He has a special combination of size, speed and strength to go along with excellent technique. Mercilus also recorded 57 tackles and 22.5 tackles for a loss.
Entering the NFL, Mercilus is an advanced pass-rusher. He got the better of the best tackles he faced this season. Against Ohio State's Mike Adams, Mercilus recorded 1.5 sacks with a forced fumble. The Wisconsin Badgers' powerful offensive line couldn't contain Mercilus. He bull rushed through massive right tackle Josh Oglesby to get a sack-fumble on Russell Wilson. Mercilus also knocked out left tackle Ricky Wagner for part of the game.
Mercilus has a very impressive repertoire of pass rushing moves. He attacks with speed around the edge. As a counter to the speed, he has the strength to execute rip moves and shed offensive linemen. Mercilus has the raw power to get under offensive linemen's pads and bull rush into the pocket. That catches linemen by surprise as they are so cognizant of being ready for his speed rush. Beyond his great physical skill set, Mercilus is an advanced pass-rusher technically.
Mercilus holds up well in run defense. Linemen don't push him around, as he is strong at the point of attack. He also will burst into the backfield to disrupt running plays.
The big question regarding Mercilus is why didn't break into the lineup sooner and why didn't he produce more earlier. In 2009 and 2010, Mercilus combined to record 24 tackles with two sacks and 6.5 tackles for a loss.
Player Comparison: Jason Pierre-Paul. There are a lot of similarities between Mercilus and JPP. Both are fantastic athletes who come to the NFL with a special combination of speed and strength. They also were one-year wonders at the college level. Mercilus had more production than JPP in their final college season, and the latter has turned into one of the best pass-rushers in the NFL.
Right now, it looks like Mercilus should get drafted in the same range as JPP. However, it is possible that Mercilus will be this year's Aldon Smith and surprise some by cracking the top 10. It is not out of the question for him to pass North Carolina's Quinton Coples in the lead up to the 2012 NFL Draft. JPP did that with Derrick Morgan in 2010. Projecting Mercilus to the pros, I see a player similar to Pierre-Paul.
I would love to get someone with that potiential at 14. Could be highway robbery.
I would not let Spencer walk just to let him walk but do you think he should get say top 5 money as OLB? Do you think there is a point where you let a guy go before you just hand over the new contract?
I agree but I think that will have to mean your pick at 14 will have to be a SOLB. So people should stop putting these mocks or full offseason plans together where they let SPencer walk and then draft a OLB to replace him in the 3rd. Chances of a 3rd round 3-4 OLB pick starting day one is very very slim
How is he vs the run and can he drop back into coverage? Alot of people think he is a 4-3 DE only, and he has only had the one year of production, before this year he hasn't done much. Is he just a one year wonder?
Also look at the players and teams he was playing when he got the majority of his stats. Not great competition.
There will be moves made before the draft and a clearer picture. I have said from the get go that 3 big concerns for me were OL,OLB and CB and if I can address any of those spots in the draft with the 14th pick I'm all for it.
I would also not dismiss a DE in terms of a pass rusher. Ware was consider a tweener out of Troy playing the DE spot.
There are few positions that you'd draft a player in the 2nd round knowing they'd be a starter so I fail to see your point. There are a bunch of players drafted in later rounds that could have started if they had been handed over the reins, it's just rarely done. When people say that they are letting Spencer walk, it doesn't have to mean that they are then drafting in the 2nd/3rd round for a starting position, it could mean that they are promoting Butler and drafting his backup who could potentially take over the starting position down the road. For the record, I'm not thrilled with any of the OLB in the early rounds of the draft and would probably take a chance on Vontaze making the transition to OLB before I would draft any of them.
If he ask for too much , let him walk . My point is that you don't burn the 14th pick to replace him if the value isn't there .
The guy you're looking for is Shea McClellin. He's strong, quick and relentless, and happened to play OLB and ILB as well as DE his senior year.
I like him alot. Most of the OLB in the early rounds don't impress me much.
I think people are missing a valid point you are making. We need an OLB that can cover and set the edge in the base 3-4 set. We don't need another Ware, we need a compliment to Ware. Now, when we go nickel we need another Ware. This is the problem that most overlook. The SOLB in the 3-4 is the hardest spot to fill. That guy has to do it all; set the edge, cover TE/RB and play the flat and when we go nickel he has to provide a pass rush.
Ware would make a great SOLB but then he would not rush nearly as much out of the base set unless it's a blitz (defined as sending more than 4 rushers). Spencer is no Ware but 6 sacks from the SOLB is about a reasonable expectation.
I'm an Ingram fan and I like Upshaw but neither is a marked upgrade over Spencer. I do think both can start day one. I think both will have a learning curve which is the speed of the game.
Personally I think more pressure from the ILB's and Ratliff is what is needed. Spencer is what he is, an avg SOLB. No shame in that. I vote to keep Spencer for a reasonable price.
thats the thing. If calvin pace is getting paid 7mil per you know spencer is going to want atleast that much. And that is what im trying to say. I rather replace him then pay him that much coin. If spencer was a hard worker and had great work ethic I might think about it. But come on the guy is playing across a hall of fame OLB who is getting much of the attention and he cannot get atleast 10 sacks?????
guys. It is real simple. We MUST have another pass rusher that can balance Ware. Spencer is clearly not that guy. Nor is anyone else on the team now. So we have to get one. Either a DE or a OLB. There does not appear to be a 3-4 DE coming out that is another Seymour, which is very rare anyway. So we have to get a OLB that will do better then Spencer at rushing the passer from the OLB. IT is BS that we need to have a guy there that does more coverage; the Steelers do not; the Pats in their best days did not; so a coverage or play the run well guy is NOT all important.
The #1 way to beat a team in todays NFL that passes all over the place is PRESSURE. SACKS.