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Democratic Pres Debate... cutting through the crap

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by BrAinPaiNt, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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  2. jman

    jman Active Member

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    Hillary has never let facts get in the way of her good story.

    And people actually want her to run this counrty?
  3. PosterChild

    PosterChild New Member

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    This a great site, which I've sort of forgotten about, to keep bookmarked so we can keep an eye on them. Not saying any politician would ever mislead us but they might commit an unintentional error that should be noted. All the more important in the national election.
  4. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Did you even read the link or just offer your thoughtful retort?

    Both players had attacks that were false or at least inconsistent with reality when phrased as they were. Both also had true jabs landed.

    Factcheck.org shows Hillary to be at least as accurate in her attacks as anyone else.

    Then again let's not have facts get in the way of YOUR good story!
  5. jman

    jman Active Member

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    Naaa, just added my little retort and I didn't misrepresent any facts. Just my opinion, that's all.

    I got no use for Hillary. Don't need her, don't want her. Then again with this bunch running for President, I pretty much feel the same about all of them.

    But I do love your phrase "inconsistent with reality". I may use that again...Thanks!
  6. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    "Hilary was at least as accurate as anyone else"
    Talk about a low bar!
  7. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    which is to say she lied too. she twists facts too.

    sorry if i want more from a politician than a politician but i do. it's a sad state of affairs when we defend liars as being able to get something done on any side.

    as for going back 10 years to find the original quote...

    10 years ago in many ways i was another person.
    10 years from now i'll likely be another different person

    it's called growing up. our views change according to our experiences and that's normal. you go back far enough we all contradict ourselves yet we then want someone to defend why they grew up and yet hope we don't have to defend it ourselves.

    the biggest part i see on obama is single-payer system now i have no idea the ins and outs of either or any system and don't really care right now. but the deeper you dig into something the more you know it and what you do about it - may change.

    but any port in a storm i suppose when all you have to do is change mob mentality.
  8. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    All Obama had to do at the debate was state he had in fact changed his opinion but he did not. He denied it.

    Ironically, Ice, a lot of Hillary's haters call upon her college commencement address(lot longer than 10 years ago). We do not have a commencement address from most because well you have to finish first in your class or be a class president for that.

    And what you like to consider lies you would be guilty of yourself in any number of posts. ...taking something out of context. In fact you do so with regard to Hillary's 'lies'.

    The other irony of course is that you are only concerned with Hillary's lies. for everyone else it is ok. You can't vote for her because she lies but you can vote for other liars.

    For your own mental sanity I beg you to simply ignore politics and pretend the guy you vote for is awesome, nice and neato.

    ...and yes we are electing the best President for our country not the best Mother Teresa. Dave Campo was a nice guy and beloved by all but he sucked as a head coach. Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells are both rather crappy human beings when you examine them closely but they won Super Bowls. You fill the job with the person who can do the job.
  9. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    oh you don't have to worry about my mental state, jt. but please, the subtle insults are rather funny so never stop. you'd not be you if you didn't rant and rave like a lunatic on acid. maybe i do this too - but you come across as a machine and/or broken record in your support of hillary and denoucement of "republicans". you seem to be living inside a demographic and stereotypes rule your thoughts. this is not to insult you but tell you what i see. if insulting, look inward, not at me.

    now, i don't want a psycho-back-stabbing-beyatch for president. period. i don't want a back stabbing psycho dude either.

    you tell me i'm ok with bush lying even though you must have read by now i've said several times i'm NOT ok with bush lying and i DO NOT see him the same way any longer. but since that doesn't fit your pre-existing condition of people (who change in time) you put me back where YOU want me. sorry dude, i'm not there. give it up.

    you seem to believe it's impossible to get the job done with ethics so you allow bad traits to become good.

    bad is bad to me. your implication that i want "mother theresa" is just funny. again you go to extremes I DO NOT GO TO yet you think i'm there. can you please just stick with what i say and quit making an arse out of yourself with assumptions? it's possible to have ethics and be tough on people and NOT mother theresa.
  10. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Ice, I do seriously worry about your mental health.

    exhibit A--- you are clearly shaken that Bush let you down... as if I(and 50% of the country) wasn't saying he would 7 years ago....

    Now you have turned and left lying alone, thank goodness.
    But you describe Hillary thusly: psycho-back-stabbing-beyatch for president

    Who is going to extremes?
    When did Hillary turn Psycho? Who did she backstab?
    If anything she is regarded as cold, calculated and with a long memory.

    I do not hate all Republicans. I was a Republican for goodness sakes. I would have voted McCain in 2000. I thought he was clearly superior to the other 3 candidates. McCain>Bradley>Gore>Bush.

    But I actually have been following politics closely for years now not 'just' posting on a message board to kill time arguing my world view.

    I lived through the Tom DeLay nonsense in Texas with redistricting to steal votes and seats. People who have been found guilty of actually violating the law. People who argued how immoral Clinton was.... The same people who saw Bush get voted in over McCain because Bush's team lied and said McCain had an illegitimate half-black child. Now those folks are saying the Clinton machine is the one who employs dirty tactics, rofl.

    Politicians being politicians certainly does not shock me.

    If you see someone bagging on Hillary they may not be a neo-con but they have spent far too much time around them...:)
  11. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    I am going to address something. My point/question does not have anything to do with hillary as a whole, although it could be tied into business as usual with her and most of the current candidates. That's if you understood that long run on sentence.:p:

    I have brought this up before, maybe a year or two ago but I still think of it from time to time and find myself once again being upset at what politics has become and how willing the average american has become in accepting it.

    Here is the thing.

    Can you think back to the last President that was not involved in some kind of scandal or has made terrible mistakes?

    Who was the last one who has not had a scandal or made what many would consider a big mistake.

    We Got Bush now...don't need to go into the details.:p:
    Bill Clinton with white water, bj and impeachment.
    Papa Bush with the Read my lips line that came back to bite him.
    Ronnie with the Iran Contra
    Carter and the gas and hostage crisis

    Those are just the list of Presidents that I would say I remember in my time. Now I was around 7-8 when Carter took office but prior to that I was just a little too young to even listen to any news stories or such.

    So think about that. From about 1977 we have had a president(s) sitting in office that has been seen to have scandals or big mistakes.

    Yet we find ourselves still going into elections with candidates the parties push on us and we have many who use the logic of...take the lesser of two evils.

    Geez we just need something different to cut through this partisan BS and quit just settling for what they put out for us.

    /rant off.
  12. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    BP,
    All these folks are human.
    They get asked tons of questions.
    They have inherently 40% of the country out to get them because of Party Affiliation, they are both celebrities and political figures expected to be held to the highest standards in all things.

    The difference in now and forever ago is simple.....

    Now we pay attention.

    If Clinton got an impeachment hearing for a BJ what did JFK deserve?

    Does anyone believe LBJ told us everything he knew about the JFK assassination?

    How many of our Presidents have been openly racist, or sexist or whatever other fault...?

    In short we are electing people. Extraordinary people yes, but still people. They are not going to wade into political waters and have their daily life and entire history torn apart into little bits and come out squeaky clean.

    I am ashamed that we allowed ourselves to vote in the least common denominator in George W. Bush because we passed over more experienced, intelligent and competent choices. It has nothing to do with is he a great guy or not. This whole thing is really a long job interview and we need to hire the person who will run our country the best.
  13. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    not shaken at all, dude. so you're wrong and no sense in me reading the rest.
  14. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    totally agree. i've come around to what you're saying cause it makes sense in the overall scheme of things.

    we unfortuantely have 2 sides that can both misbehave at will. we have the followers of those sides who will keep the fight up till death.

    i'm on neither side - i want more than this crap for my country. period.
  15. jman

    jman Active Member

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    jterrell, nothing could be further from the truth.

    Now...absolutely nothing is off limits, every campaign is built solely on knocking you opponent down not bringing yourself up and most of all, the "I want what I want and I want it now" mentality of this country.

    Also with the internet age comes the "I have to get a sound bite" out before my competition and I have to beat him / her down with their response. Who cares about what they really said, I will tell America what he really meant.

    Simply, we have lost our civility. We have become “holier than thou” and expect everyone to live up to our over bloated expectations of who we think they should be.

    That being said, I am tired of career politicians who make a wealth of money and abuse the power they have been entrusted with for personal gain.

    I’ve become to loath everything Bush and all I hear is Hillary will set things right. Bull hockey. She is the career politician that I have learned to loath. She has done nothing but position herself for this run the day Bill left office. It was obvious that the only thing she truly cares about is herself and the power that goes with the office. If she truly wanted to help the “people”, she should have gone back to Arkansas and paid her dues there. But going to NY and getting in the PR spot light put her on the fast track to her ultimate goal.

    She could have the cure for cancer, the answer to world peace, and a cold six pack just for me and I wouldn’t vote for her. I don’t expect you to understand it or agree with it. It is America and I can freaking hate who I damn well please.
  16. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    Well put and a bullseye.
    Career politicians completely lost on a lifestyle not geared toward attaining such a lofty goal as the ultimate seat of power.

    It's impossible to relate to these people as genuine and relative to how the majority of this country has to live. They do not represent Americans in any way shape or form.

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