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Did anyone see the Democrats energy proposal?

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by AtlCB, Aug 26, 2008.

  1. AtlCB

    AtlCB Active Member

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    These buffoons truly don't get it! They seem to be under the delusion that wind farms, solar panels, and plug-in hybrids will immediately make us energy independant! :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

    Let's kill some more bats and birds. I hope you like extremely high energy prices and mosquitoes!
  2. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Did you expect them to come up with something real? If so then you have been asleep for about 20 years.
  3. SuspectCorner

    SuspectCorner Bromo

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    Nothing like the immediacy of neocon Repug plans for offshore pimping - err... drilling.
  4. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully I must ask you if you have much knowledge and experience with commodities markets and the oil field, i do not ask that as a thinly disguised barb but because I'm alarmed by the ignorance in the general population concerning the two.

    The Democrats have publicly promoted nationalization which I assure you is a monumental disaster if ever pursued, it is also a silly ad hominem employed by many to blame Republicans and "big oil" for gas prices, they do not control the market value.
  5. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    you must forgive him. He has listened to the moronic mantra for so long he just naturally regurgitates it.
  6. SuspectCorner

    SuspectCorner Bromo

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    And just as respectfully I must point out that most intelligent indications are that new offshore drilling operations MAY affect the price of a gallon of gas by a few cents - several years (as many as 30) from now.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/13/AR2008071302052.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/18/bush.offshore/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/washington/18drill.html

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...drilling_not_a_quick_fix_analysts_say/?page=2

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080730_mccains_oil_drilling_hoax/
  7. Walker

    Walker Texas Ranger

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    Texas is already taking a leading role in what the democrats are proposing. A colleague of mine help run a few oil rigs off the gulf of Mexico and has recently been transferred to help install new energy plans. Offshore drilling is not going to do jack but help save a few cents. Hopefully a president gets in the white house that actually does what he promised during the elections by reducing the demand for foreign oil. Presidents have promised this for now about 30 years, and hopefully one of them finally takes lead.
  8. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    What is absent from this logic is that refining capacities are the chief physical hurdle to American oil production and not drilling itself.

    Our own silly policies undermine our refining capacities and keep prices from otherwise being alleviated by production means.

    Its not that the oil companies have refused to cheapen their product at the pump, its largely that they've been forced to keep it as is because of EPA refusal to update and build new refineries, coupled with OPEC and the commodities exchange we are one third of our own problem.
  9. sacase

    sacase Well-Known Member

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    More liberal double talk.

    Pelosi says that drilling more will only drop the price of oil a few cents, but at the same time she wants to release oil from the strategic reserves to help lower the price of gas.....

    The solution is obvious, drill now and research new technologies now. But libs are to caught up in their agenda to realize this. No wonder they are called the party of no ideas.
  10. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    What kills me is the interview Pelosie gave with Meet the press when confronted with the fact that she has invested her money in Pickens plan she did not know because it was part of a fund and then goes on to say how she believe in the plan. She went on to say for now we need to get away from fossil fuels and go to natural gas? Hey Idiot natural gas is a fossil fuel you moron.

    My god this woman was hitting on all cylinders this past Sunday. On abortion she said as a Catholic that they do not believe life starts at conception thankfully a couple of Bishops have counted that and said Catholics have believed life has started at conception for only 2,000 years. Since then Nancy has counted it is a regional thing depending on where you come from? :laugh2: :laugh2: God this woman is a moron and one of the top leaders of the Democratic party? You have got to be kidding
  11. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Hell she has a personal investment in all of this. Dems talk about subsides for oil companies yet these alternative companies are getting 25% more in subsides than the evil oil company?
  12. ologan

    ologan Well-Known Member

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    Just my 2 cents,but if we don't develop what we have,and I mean all of it (Oil,gas),then could there ever be a day when somebody,somewhere has a real big woodie for us,and decides to turn off the spigot? That could happen in any number of ways,not the least of which is blocking the Straits of Hormuz,or closing down a pipeline running thru the Ukraine or Georgia,or even our 'friends' in the arab world deciding to 'punish' us,as they have done before. Why put ourselves in a position of being able to be blackmailed without notice!
    Develop everything we can,and that includes all the non fossil fuel scenarios...But for Gods sake,develop those too,cause I'd rather have that big arrow in the quiver if we need it,and we will need it sooner or later. I just want to have it when that time comes.
  13. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    That is why the Republicans do not want to open the strategic reserve. The reserve was put into place after the oil embargo in the 70's for emergencies
  14. ologan

    ologan Well-Known Member

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    Understood,but how long would the SPR last if faced with a long term interruption? Once you go thru it,what's left?
  15. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Not long if we don't step up and start drilling our own oil like every other nation in the world does who has access to oil. I'm all for alternatives but I think both can and should be done. Hamstringing yourself is not a solution it is a recipe for disaster. Dems need to get their head out of LA LA Land and deal with reality for a change!!!!
  16. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    You're right that adding more refineries would go a long way towards lowering the cost of oil. Unfortunately more refineries aren't being built for the same reasons that more nuclear plants aren't being built. They're incredibly expensive to build and it takes years (nearing a decade) to just get all the proper permits and make sure the process is up to regulation. Because the investment is so large it means that it takes too long to break even on your profit margin.

    And who's going to build them in the first place? Oil companies? They're making record profits right now and there's no shortage of oil that's driving demand up so if they build more refineries and increase supply then the price of oil falls and they've effectively just spent billions of dollars on a refinery that is hurting their bottom line. Unless of course they then ship the excess oil overseas, which doesn't help us at all.
  17. ologan

    ologan Well-Known Member

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    Also agree that more refinery capacity would be of immense help,but all the refining capacity means nothing if you have no oil to refine. First things first....Secure the supply.
  18. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    It won't matter if you drill more if the ability to process and refine isn't increased. If you "secure the supply" but don't have any willing investors to build new refineries then you're SOL and haven't benefited anyone. The unrefined oil would just be sold overseas.
  19. yeahyeah

    yeahyeah New Member

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    1) Well...yes and no.

    Over the last quarter-century, the number of refineries in the United States dropped to 149, less than half the number in 1981. Because companies have upgraded and expanded their aging operations, refining capacity during that time period shrank only 10 percent from its peak of 18.6 million barrels a day. At the same time, gasoline consumption has risen by 45 percent.


    Jay Saunders, who follows oil companies for Deutsche Bank, said that the increase in refining margins would lead to increased capacity. "The industry is definitely going to overbuild," he said, "they have in the past and they will in the future."
    Others caution that the industry should be wary of recreating a glut of capacity that would cause profit margins to sink again. "Refining has been a cyclical business for a long time," said Bill Hauschildt, the vice president for global refining with ChevronTexaco. "In the past few years, there's been much more discipline in the market for not overbuilding capacity."

    See this is much a money and business thing as it is an EPA thing if not more.
    They are running it fat right now and they like it this way. In the past they didnt always have it so good. No shame in that game...well there is..but call a spade a spade bro..you are gettin bent over too right?


    2) The business of turning crude oil into gasoline, jet fuel or heating oil has rarely been a lucrative proposition. It has dismal profit margins compared with its more glamorous cousin, exploration. It is highly cyclical and fairly unpredictable, because demand for gasoline swings sharply by season. And because of low oil prices over the past decades, refiners have been forced into cutthroat competition that has driven many of the smaller refiners out of business.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/09/business/09refinery.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&oref=slogin

    Eventhough there has been EPA restriction and more stringent regulation especially regarding the composition of the fuel itself, alot...ALOT of the blame for lack of refining capability can be placed squarely on the shoulders of oil.
    As another poster eluded to...creating a refinery is a large and costly undertaking and when oil was at $13 a barrel in 1998, which is when they should have been constructing them...it wasnt cost effective...because there was a glut in capacity...however they are in the catbirds seat and this is a business miscalc thats in their favor. So now the consumer is forced to pay for their greed.
  20. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    We haven't built a new refinery from scratch since 1973, and the 15 plus years of red tape permits are unreasonable hoops for any competitive company to have to endure.

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