Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by robert70x7, Jan 8, 2013.
Could this be a possibility? If so, we can throw all of our mocks in the trash right meow.
If we go 4-3 my Margus Hunt pet cat dies an extremely early death. We'll see what happens, I suppose.
I really hope not tbh. If we do, we're going to have to basically start over from scratch on defense and start drafting 4-3 players. It's not just a scheme change, it's all about personel. We don't have the players for it outside of a couple guys. Ware would basically be useless except for obvious passing downs, as would Spencer.
I say we stick to the 3-4 and continue to build it up. But, knowing Jerry, he'll probably make the worst decision possible and we will continue to suck.
What is prototypical 4-3 DE build? That probably really seems like a stupid question, but Cowboys have been in 3-4 ever since my draft mind can remember.
Would solve the Anthony Spencer issue.
WLB: Ernie Sims?; Rookie mid-rounder like Sean Porter / Gerald Hodges / Zaviar Gooden
MLB: Sean Lee; Dan Connor
SLB: Bruce Carter; Alex Albright
So Lissemore and Hatcher are our DTs right? Ware and possible Spencer are the DEs. Lee is MLB, Carter is OLB, other OLB is ?
I think that means we try to fill in the OLB with someone who is more of a run thumper.
Reading up a little on it (from other posters and on the internet), we could actually be really close to having all the personnel:
RDE: Ware (he played DE in college)
DT: Hatcher and Lissemore (this shouldn't be a problem for them)
LDE: Spencer or draft pick (Spencer played DE at Purdue; both Cliff Avril and Osi Umenyora have the same build as Spencer, ~ 6'3" and 260lbs)
MLB: 1st round draft pick (Manti Te'o, Alec Ogletree, Kevin Minter are all 1st-round worthy)
The secondary would not change (except hopefully an upgrade at S, i.e. Jairus Byrd)
We've had 43 personnel for a long time. Lots of our DTs and DEs are better suited for that technique. Plus, it should be easier to for Lee and Carter to make plays because they won't have to get off of guards as often.
I like the move. Rat, if he stays around, could be a beast.
Curious why Lee would not be the MLB, he is a general on the defense, it is natural fit. Carter was a OLB before, should be good for coverages on the TE etc. THe other guy would be a bruiser I think, a guy who can still get around, I like the guys who have enough mobility. I love the idea of Te'O but could he be an OLB?
To be honest, I've just seen other people list him as a SLB. Also, there's 3 good 1st round prospects for MLB and Lee could probably play any of the positions if asked. WLB needs to be your fastest sideline to sideline guy, so Carter would probably fit best there.
But... I'm definitely not an authority. I don't have any playing experience. Just going by what I've been reading.
Jason Pierre Paul
6-5, 270, 4.7 forty
It can range, Robert Mathis is what? 230-240lbs? And Julius Peppers is 285-290lbs.
It doesn't really change our needs. It only adds to it. People will still say we need a big NT or an interior D-lineman who can rush the passer. And then we would need to get yet another LB.
I'm not sure how we would look.
I like our CB situation. Safety is still a major question. Sensabaugh is solid. I liked how Church was progressing before his injury, but he's still a major question mark. The staff seems to have a lot of faith in Johnson.
I think we're almost there with the LBs. Carter and Lee have always seemed to be prototypical LBs in the 43. Connor could fill in at MLB....or Albright could fill that role. Sims would be nice to keep if he comes cheap.
I still think a draft pick would be nice here. It doesn't have to be an early one though.
The DL is the biggest problem. I think DT would be set. DE is a MAJOR problem, though. Ware would do just fine at DE. The LDE position worrie me. I think we lose Spencer. We simply can't afford him.
What do we do with Ratliff? I actually think he's a great fit as a 43 DT. Again, I'm not sure if we cut ties with him.
What does the D look like then?
DT: Crawford/Spears (I think he's still under contract)
LDE: ????/Hatcher perhaps?
Fix the DE problem and one LB slot, and the D may be ok. Lots of holes to fill. But in the long run, it may be the best thing for us.
6'4-6'6. 260-280. Long arms, quick 10 yard dash. Basically an OLB with about 20 more pounds on him.
I think a 4-3 would be fine and probably better suited for us at this point since Spencer will probably be walking and there is no suitable replacement for him. Much easier to find personnel for a 4-3 than to find an OLB that can actually make plays.
We need 1-2 more additions on the defensive line to field an above average unit.
NT: Ratliff, Hatcher, Lissemore, Crawford. This is a pretty solid group actually. It'll be interesting to see what we do here as I can't see Ratliff being cut. Traditionally in a 4-3 you have a typical "run stopping" DT but then most teams only carry 4 tackles and we don't have that clog.
DE: Ware, Albright? Wilber?...definately need a 1st rounder or a FA opposite Ware if we want to scare teams. We have to dedicate significant resources to this position as it's to a 4-3 as an OLB is to a 3-4. Johnson from the Bengals if he isn't franchised would be a legitimate nightmare. Maybe Cliff Avril, Dwight Freeney, etc.
At LB it'd obviously be Carter, Sims, and Lee. Maybe McSurdy in the mix? I'd expect a mid round pick at LB for adequate depth.
Not really that much of a transition. I'd argue finding an OLB capable of producing next season would be harder than finding a DE that can play. We only really need a couple of pieces in our 4-3 that can be addressed fairly effectively through the draft and FA in one offseason.
IF we switch to the 3-4 I let Spencer walk. I don't see him being a big enough impact at DE to warrant the 9M a year, or whatever he will get.
Also, I would have no problem with a Lee, Carter, and Albright linebacker combination. I think Albright is going to turn into a nice player.
That leaves D-line with Ware and Hatcher as the only guys slated to start. Rat is up in the air and I don't think Lissemore is a starting caliber player. We would need to draft/sign a DT and 2 DE's (1 for depth).
Why stick with a sissy defense like the 4-3? I say we go 7 diamond and dare folks to pass on us!!1!
If we go 4-3 having bobby Wagner and Brockers and resigning mike Jenkins looks a hell of a lot better than just Morris Claiborne (as great a player as I think he'll be)
Good point on the front 7, but I wouldn't want to keep Jenkins on this team no matter what defense we run.
It really depends on what kind of 4-3 we'd be running.
Lee and Carter can play whatever scheme you want them to.
Outside of that we'd have a ton of work to do in the front 7. Hatcher/Spencer would be out of place, and Spears/Coleman are aging vets who are past their prime. Same could be said for Ratliff, but he might have something left as a rotational 3Tech.
Crawford could be a decent strong side end and Wilber is a more natural fit in space as a Sam than he was as a stand up guy in the 3-4' so those would be positives.
I'm sure Ware would still be effective as a rush end, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to start stockpiling some young prototypical guys through the draft.
I would say we'd definitely need at least 1 true DE and UT to get this kick started , as those are the toughest positions and most important ones to fill for a successful 4-3 front.
Then there's the issue of the secondary, are we looking more at a Tampa 2 or a press man scheme? If its Lovie Smith and the Tampa 2 then we better get some new safeties, because the range we have currently back there will not cut it.
Just too many questions right now, we'll have to wait and see who they bring in as DC.