Does it concern anyone about our past whiffs at drafting a 4-3 defensive end?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Verdict, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Maxmadden

    Maxmadden Well-Known Member

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    Not worried about drafting a 4-3 DE because I'm not sure we will even draft one this year. Not worried about switching to a 4-3 either because what exactly are we leaving behind? It's not like we had a top ten 3-4 and are junking it to move to a 4-3. I can't even remember the last time we drafted a 4-3 DE. I am more concerned with our drafting history of OL and safeties in the present day..
  2. Royal Laegotti

    Royal Laegotti Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy!

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    4-3, 3-4 Dallas has GREAT potential to whiff on ANY draft pick. So yes I'm concerned but at the same time no I'm not because it's business as usual.
  3. brucekr

    brucekr Active Member

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    I agree with much of your post. But I think if the coach is good enough, you can install a successful scheme in the first season. Del Rio and to a lesser extent, Mike Nolan both took over defenses this year and greatly improved them. I don't get my hopes up too high that it will be magical for us this year, but I do hope.
  4. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    Good post.
  5. Nav22

    Nav22 Well-Known Member

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    Fixed it for you.
  6. fishspill

    fishspill Well-Known Member

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    The cynic in me thinks the 4-3 is the built-in excuse for a poor or middling record for 2-3 years when the new built-in excuse will be rebuilding for 2-3 years.
  7. Venger

    Venger Well-Known Member

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    Does it concern anyone about our past whiffs at drafting [strike]a 4-3 defensive end[/strike]?

    Why yes. Yes it does.
  8. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    A simpler scheme.

    And a better D-Coordinator.

    I'm not saying that it WILL happen.

    Or that the defense WILL be much improved.

    But, it's not ridiculous to think that a simpler scheme with a better D-C won't help.

    Wade as a Head Coach practiced a certain way that was not conducive to mistake free football. That's why he works better as a D-Coordinator. Wade the H-C doesn't care if technique mistakes are made if the player 'plays a good game.' He would also rather have the team watch film instead of practicing things until they get it right.

    I still like Rob Ryan although my biggest gripe against him was he would get calls into the defense too late and take too long to decide what personnel he wanted out there. That causes confusion.

    That's why you got 5 years of defensive confusion (although this year they weren't bad). Complex schemes, bad practice habits set forth by the old HC and a D-C that struggled at times to get play calls in and substitutions in.

  9. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Not really. That is not to say I don't have any concerns when it comes to selcting a player at any position. With Ware and Spencer I think DE spot will be alright. DT is where my current concerns are with Rat having issues.
  10. CowboysFaninDC

    CowboysFaninDC Well-Known Member

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    yes. its very difficult to judge and draft 4-3 DEs. more teams fail in their evaluation as opposed to succeed. part of hte reason we switched to 3-4 was because we failed so much and it was easier to get an OLB for 3-4 to rush the passer than finding a 4-3 DE to rush the passer.
  11. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    I am concerned although I think Ware and Spencer are fine in the 4-3 if they stay healthy.

    The positive thing I see is that the NFL has changed quite dramatically since we were last in the 4-3.

    When we were in the 4-3, so was virtually 90% of the league. So you had to compete with every other team for 4-3 DE's. Remember, guys like Jared Allen, John Abraham, Julius Peppers, etc....all came from other teams than they ended up on. Lots of teams were struggling to find those 4-3 DE's because the demand was greater than the supply.

    Meanwhile the Steelers never left the 3-4 and just kept on finding great pass rushing OLB after great pass rushing OLB. Ample supply, less demand.

    The other part is that you can now create a very good pass rush with two explosive DT's and average DE's. While the Lions have problems in their secondary, they have a very good, tough D-Line.

    When the Cowboys were playing the 4-3, you pretty much had to have a La'Roi Glover type and a big gap eater like a Willie Blade.

    Teams run less and now use the read option, so you can have two explosive pass rushing DT's like the Lions have in Suh and Fairley.

    Those guys are not as desirable in the 3-4 because it can be a real tough fit to put them at NT or DE in the 3-4. It can work, but lots of times it doesn't. Also, you generally prefer taller D-Linemen in the 3-4 since it's more reactionary. Find a really good DE that is 6'2" tall, the 3-4 teams probably don't have much interest in him.

    I think the key is for the future. If the league goes back to play 4-3 or maybe a 3-3-5. How do we adjust say 5 years down the road?


    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I have read articles recently that contend that a 43 is a better Defense to combat the spread or read option. I suspect that this is part of the reason we are moving to a 43. Also, you don't go out and hire a DC and then force him to change his scheme. If you want to question the hiring of Kiffen, that's fine but I don't see how you can not run a 43 if he's the DC. JMO

    As far as drafting DEs, well, our past history with DEs and our ability to draft them is 4 or 5 coaching staffs away. I see no reason to create concerns when we have plenty enough as it is. It may well be that we have a problem finding talent there but I'm not going to worry about that until it actually shows itself to be a problem.
  13. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    I do not consider Spears a whiff, I consider Spears a victim of a system he was never meant to be in. He is a decent run stuffing DE in the 3-4 but I think he would have been more like Greg Ellis in a 4-3, high single digit sack numbers. He was Parcells pet cat and he never really fit in the 3-4 and then we had different DC that told him to gain weight to play the inside NT position and pretty much ruined him as a player.
  14. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    And that's why I too think the defensive switch was a good thing.
  15. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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  16. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    This is only tangential to the OP, since none of these guys are 43 DEs.

    However, I think this list exaggerates the ability of a lot of these guys. How can you consider guys like Liss, Brent, and Butler hits when they have done 0 in the NFL and the jury is still out on Crawford?
  17. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    Nor would I lose my sense of balance about drafting 4-3 DE's since the Cowboys have not attempted to draft any in close to a decade now.

    And throwing up your hands and howling at the moon over what the Cowboys did prior to that seems very over the top.
  18. koolaid

    koolaid Drink Me

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    It concerns me. Our pass rush was abysmal when we last ran the 4-3.

    As I recall, our rational for switching to the 3-4 was based on the idea that it is easier to find tweener pass rushers than 4-3 DEs, as well as the ability to disguise the blitz better. I suspect having Ware will help this time around, but we need young talent because demarcus isn't going to hold up too much longer.

    Im not hating on the switch. I think the read-option is here to stay and we need to adapt somehow. Watching 3-4 OLBs dance makes me want to puke. Hopefully we will be able to hit on some d-line draft picks.
  19. theebs

    theebs Believe!!!!

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    no its our past whiffs at every position that have me concerned.
  20. VACowboy

    VACowboy Well-Known Member

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    Red hasn't been in a position to draft any 43 DEs. I'll let him, Kiffin and Marinelli show me themselves, one way or the other.

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