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Does it concern anyone about our past whiffs at drafting a 4-3 defensive end?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Verdict, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    That is true. Our pass rush when running the 4-3 over its final years was anemic. But on the other hand the pass defense ranking was consistently much better then than it has been over the last several season using the 3-4 and getting to the QB more often... So go figure.
  2. Pessimist_cowboy

    Pessimist_cowboy Well-Known Member

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    greg ellis was a heck of a player , whats the point of this thread how far are we going back here???

    tony tolbert good
    jim jeffcoat good
    greg ellis good
    to tall jones good
    harvey martin good

    almost all those guys have 100 sacks each...silly thread IMO.
  3. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    Not necessarily silly but over-reactional based on the problems the Cowboys had trying to replace Charles Haley and Tony Tolbert. For about 4 drafts it seems like the Cowboys by hook or crook would draft a guy a DE who didn't pan out. Sorta like the offensive line woes the team has gone through recently.

    The problem is that they haven't tried drafting a 4-3 DE in almost a decade to so imply that the problems they had in the mid 1990's drafting DE's would carry over to 2013 is, well... maybe it is silly. :)
  4. CowboysFaninDC

    CowboysFaninDC Well-Known Member

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    just because they stayed on the team, doesn't mean we hit the mark. its what type of plyaer they are. on that list. ware and spencer seem like big hits. canty was a hit until we let him go. ratliff is good. but not great. however cowboys fans will put him in the HOF.

    lissemore? not yet.
    brent, crawford? not close
  5. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    If I'm not mistaken, there are more teams running the 34 now then there were when we switched to the 34. So with more teams running it, it makes it harder (than when we first switched) to find those tweener pass rushers.

    And with more teams switching to the 34, that means less are running the 43, making it easier to find 43 DE/Pass rushers (At least I hope so).

    That said, if we resign SPencer we won't have a need to draft a 43 DE this year. And if we're VERY lucky and can get a trade back and add a first next year... we might just have a good shot at drafting the best 43 DE in the draft next year.

    [IMG]
  6. dfense

    dfense Well-Known Member

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    Greg Ellis?
  7. the_h0wey

    the_h0wey Well-Known Member

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    Are you telling me you weren't happy with the Kavika Pittman and Ebenezer Ekuban picks? :confused:
  8. Ratmatt

    Ratmatt Active Member

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    Yeah it does.It was actually the first thing I thought about when I heard they were switching to the 4-3.
  9. Verdict

    Verdict Well-Known Member

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    Yes. That's true. But did our GM change when I wasn't looking? I like Jerry Jones, but we have tried to fit a square peg into a round hole a lot trying to reach for a DE just because we thought we "HAD" to have one.

    I think Victor Butler sucks as a 3-4 OLB, and I thought he was way too slow to play the position at the time he was drafted. But I wonder if he will have any value as a rushing end in a 4-3? Then again, playing the run has never been his strength so I'm not sure how that is going to fit in there.
  10. Verdict

    Verdict Well-Known Member

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    An emphatic NO from me on that question. Were you?
  11. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    There's really no rocket science to picking players in the draft. You get guys with measurables that look like they can play the game. Some pan out and some don't. By and large, it's luck. And if a GM has a string of good picks, it's more coincidence than anything.
  12. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    He might have some value as a Nickel Pass-rusher. He wouldn't really have to play the run or play in coverage.
  13. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Those guys looked good compared to Shante Carver.

    Pittman was 2nd round pick.
  14. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Ekuban was a solid player. He ended up having to play way too much on the strong side - he even complained about it. That was not a smart move on our part. We drafted a pass rusher and made him play the run side.

    Ekuban stayed in the league for 5 years (missing one of those with injury) and averaged 6 sacks a season. That's not great but any guy who stays in the league for 10 years isn't crap.
  15. Double Trouble

    Double Trouble Well-Known Member

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    Crawford is a "hit"? He's barely seen the field.

    Most of those guys were acquired when Parcells was here or are unproven. Regardless, you'd think the team that you deem "best" in drafting DL would therefore have a great DL. Do we?

    Pretty obvious, isn't it?
  16. Double Trouble

    Double Trouble Well-Known Member

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    :laugh2: It's just blind luck the Ravens/Steelers/etc have been so good the last decade? Just blind luck that Parcells took over the Jets/Pats/Cowboys and dramatically improved their rosters in each case?

    It may not be a science, but it's an art at which some people have proven to be far better than others.
  17. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    The Cowboys have experienced a big changed in the way they draft (now) as opposed to what they did in the mid/late 90's. There been numerous discussions on the board about that.
  18. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    The Ravens and Steelers have had very little turnover in their defensive personnel for the past decade. It's nice when you get a very good core group (including a sprinkling of HOFers) and can stick with them for a decade.

    I'm not saying there aren't people in the business that don't know what they're doing. I'm just saying it's a pretty low threshold.
  19. AsthmaField

    AsthmaField Outta bounds

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    I'm not concerned, no. The team has completely changed how it approaches the draft now. I like the job they're doing with the draft these days, and if you look back to the late 90's and early 00's, it wasn't just DE's that they were having trouble finding. They couldn't draft football players very well.

    They now seem to be drafting pretty well overall and IMO it doesn't matter what defensive scheme we're running in regards to the draft.

    As a matter of fact, if Spencer does leave I like the idea of finding a strongside DE better than I like them trying to find a strongside OLB. I think it will be an easier hole to fill because you don't have to worry about how the player is in pass coverage. With a DE you just look at stopping the run and rushing the QB. At OLB you have to have those two things, but you also have to ask if the guy can play in coverage.

    Either way, the team is looking for a strongside edge rusher.

    Add in the fact that we have Kiffin and Marinelli helping us pick the players that we will draft for this defense, and I don't have any concerns at all. Both of those guys know what kind of player fits their defense and you can bet they'll be in Garrett's and Jones' ear about who to draft.

    So, with the team drafting much better than it did in that bad DE run, with fewer teams now running the 43 and with coaches that know what kind of talent fits the scheme, it doesn't concern me one bit. As a matter of fact, with Marinelli and Kiffin helping to draft guys for this defense, I might feel better about it than I did with Ryan helping in the War room with his 34 scheme.

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