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Don't see the big deal over chip and the eagles

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by theranchsucks, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. Passepartout

    Passepartout Member

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    Yeah as the team almost blew a lead there. But managed to hold off the Redskins. As hopefully for his sake, Vick will play all 16 games. Something of an Achilles Heel for him!
  2. viman96

    viman96 Thread Killer

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    I have watched Chip since he arrived at Oregon. His fast paced offense does more than wear down the opposing team's defense. He dictates pace of play which ends up disrupting the entire team. In addition to wearing down the defense, he puts a huge amount of pressure on the opposing team's offense to keep up. The other team's play calling starts to change on both offense and defense to slow down Chip's offense.

    The best way to beat Chip's offense is with a superior DL. You need to get players in the backfield to disrupt the QB and RB. You need fast LBs and CBs on the edge that can tackle. Basically you need to kill the play before it has a chance to develop.

    FWIW Vick said they shut it down in the 2nd half. He wanted to keep it going but the coaching staff pulled the plug. They run 53 plays in the first half. During practice they run 100 plays for their game planning.

    Can they maintain this pace? Doubtful with a NFL roster. I think Chip will find a middle ground for this though. Right now the Eagles are buying into his system.
    khiladi likes this.
  3. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    You are right. The K Gun was around in Buffalo when Kelly was there but it was not in the 70s. Kelly was playing HS football, just outside of Pittsburgh in the late 70s. He was playing for the Cains in the early 80s and then went straight to the USFL. He didn't get to Buffalo till around 86/87 so it was probably the early 90s for Jim Kelly and the K Gun offense.

    But you are right, the concept of hurry up is not new.
  4. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    The minute they lose Vick, and I think it's only a matter of time, that offense is going to suffer. I guess We'll see what happens but I'll tell you, Washington's defense looked old last night.
  5. onlyonenow

    onlyonenow Benched

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    to me the real story of the game was how bad the skins looked on both sides of the ball
    khiladi likes this.
  6. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Have to stay disciplined in your lanes and you have to tackle well. You absolutely have to bring pressure up the middle IMO. Offensively, you have to sustain drives and score on those long drives. Limit the offensive snaps for Philly. I think you make a mistake if you simply try to score with them. They are not great defensively so if you can expose them, make them play defense for long stretches, you can beat them. Not much different then playing any hurry up offense IMO.
  7. morasp

    morasp Well-Known Member

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    I knew that. Thought I typed 90s. I got the super bowls right.
  8. Wheeltax

    Wheeltax Well-Known Member

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    The way the Redskins played in the first half, I think they would have struggled against NYG or Dallas the same way. Still reserving judgment about Philly just yet, but so far I'm not overly impressed either.
  9. BoysFan4ever

    BoysFan4ever Well-Known Member

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    I watched a tiny bit & all I saw was 2 guys chirping at each other. Philly WR & Skin DB. Throwing punches between plays & flapping their lips. They both look like they are easily rattled.
  10. mrmojo

    mrmojo Well-Known Member

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    I remember against the K- Gun the Cowboys ran their nickel defense the entire game. MLB Rober Jones rarely played, only on goal line situations, if that. They made some plays against us in the Super Bowls but our ball control offense helped keep the ball away from them, kind of like how the Giants and Redskins won Superbowls against them in 90 and 91. It's exciting what Chip Kelley's doing but versions have been done before (run and shoot, K-Gun) and have not resulted in championships. It can cause fits but eventually the defenses or opposing teams catch up on how to beat it.
  11. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    That's what I was thinking since they drafted Matt Barkley.

    I saw Syracuse run this system. Except that Ryan Nassib is really a pocket passer so he wasn't going to take as many shots like he would if he were a running QB and the team didn't run read-option and zone read schemes. They also played noticeably slower than Oregon, but in the end it allows the offense to dictate the pace. The big problem I see on offense is that at Syracuse and Oregon...they had enough talent at RB to use 3 RB's and split the carries fairly evenly. McCoy had 31 carries, on pace for 496 for the season (career high is 273 for a season). The other part is that in the NFL, defensive players are 2-3 times more likely to get injured than offensive players. Not only does his team get more plays on offense, but the Eagles will also have more plays ran against them on defense.

    Chippah stating that the offense 'was too slow'...if he really means it...I think is a real flaw in his thinking. I think for Philly to succeed they'll have to get big leads at halftime and slow it down in the 2nd half. Then hope that they don't have a lot of injuries.

    I still think a team that can communicate their blitzes quickly can really destroy this offense. The positives of letting the play clock wind down is that you can start to see what the defense's coverages and blitzes are. If you're snapping the ball immediately, then you can't see that and it can cause major problems. In the college game you often don't have the talent, experience or discipline on defense to set these blitzes up quickly.





    YR
  12. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I think this is exactly right. It's going to make for some fantastically fun games to watch, though. Lots of big plays, on both sides of the ball. Lots of offensive snaps for everybody. I can't wait to see us play the Eagles, actually. Whether it works or not, PHI is disrupting things in the NFCE.
  13. landroverking

    landroverking Well-Known Member

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    In college he had 100 players on game day. Now 45
    Can the fewer pros keep up the pace? I think not.
  14. viman96

    viman96 Thread Killer

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    IMO the best way to beat Chip's offense is with a dominant DL. The only time I have seen him lose is when the defense can consistently make plays in the back field disrupting their timing and stopping the run. The run lanes do not have time to develop and the play many times ends before it ever got started.
  15. mooo89

    mooo89 New Member

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    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/74191/the-power-of-the-chip-kelly-offense

    read this if you want to know why it was impressive. Here are some highlights:

    SPEED:

    [IMG]

    "...my stopwatch has Vick with the ball in his hands there for 1.3 seconds before throwing the pass to Celek. That's just about as low as you can go as a quarterback while letting a route begin to develop. On the next play, a bubble screen to DeSean Jackson that I'll get to later, he had the ball out in one second."

    [IMG]

    "On his first four passes, Vick needed an average of just 1.7 seconds between receiving the shotgun snap and getting the ball out to his receiver.
    That's incredible for any NFL quarterback..."

    Orakpo crashed down the line toward the running back on the ensuing play, perhaps assuming that Vick wouldn't keep the ball on the read-option for two consecutive plays. Watch what happens to the space in front of Vick:

    [IMG]

    Think about that. For years, defenses have spent their time cooking up game plans that are designed to stop Vick, arguably the greatest rushing quarterback in NFL history, from getting an opportunity to run with the football. Pundits, coaches, and players alike have insinuated all throughout this offseason that merely hitting the quarterback will be enough to bring the read-option to a screeching halt. And here, on this play, the sea parts in front of Vick on a read-option play and Washington basically invites him to run untouched up the field. That's the power of the Chip Kelly offense. When you try to take away everything, you're left giving up the one thing you swore you wouldn't."

    My thoughts:
    The offense isn't just about snapping the ball early nor just a simple read option that the redskins ran. It has so many different things all happening at the same time, all of them seemingly designed for the talents of their three best players, that it its just incredible. Watching it, I was breathlessly impressed. They came out the gates of hell. I mean just ripping it apart. Very, very entertaining.
  16. mooo89

    mooo89 New Member

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    I don't think Chip had anyone as close to the talents of Vick, McCoy, and Desean at Oregon. A dominant DL? How many NFL teams can boast about that? The last one I can remember was the Giants. That is in shambles now. Benglas maybe? Texans? I think as long as Vick, McCoy and Desean stay on the field, the Eagles are going to give teams problems. What makes a dline great is depth. A good rotation. Giving those big hulking bodies a breather. The Eagles' pace doesn't allow the rotation to take place. They take you to the deep end and they drown you.

    People say the redskins came back. They didn't. The Eagles went into prevent defence and welcomed underneath passes. They were up 26 points. Had Avant no fumbled, the Redskins don't get that last TD and its not even close.

    And guys, this was their first game running this against opposition. Think about it. They are only going to get better. And you can't prepare for that speed. You can't just ask your defense to start doing sprints the week before the Eagles. Chip Kelly had them on a special program. Remember that program we all made fun as being too cute? Having nutritionist and sleep scientists and all that statistical new-wave stuff? Well, I think the Eagles players are probably more prepared to withstand the pace than the other 31 teams. And in the NFL, even a slight edge is enough. Tired bodies tend to miss tackles, and when you throw in Lesean McCoy? Goodbye
    khiladi likes this.
  17. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    The Eagles went conservative on both offense and defense, which is why the Redskins 'dominated' in the second half. As another poster pointed out as well, Avant gifted them the fumble in the red-zone and the game would have most likely, long been over had that not happened.

    It's amsuing how people are trying to blame the 'knee' and RG3 not being 'prepared', as if DeSean Jackson destroying Hall had nothing to do with it, or that Eagles pretty much blowing up the read-option from the get go was a result of the 'issues' of RG3.
  18. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, they only had 4 first downs in the second half and were helped by an early interception on RG3. The question becomes if the offense was so powerful in the first half, what happened in the second half? And is that something we can foresee in the future?

    There are plenty of other questions as well, like McCoy running the ball 31 times (the most he's had in a season is 273) or Vick noticeably limping and taking a pounding in the game.





    YR
  19. mooo89

    mooo89 New Member

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    Yep. You are up 26 points in week 1 with 25 minutes left, you just wait it out. I think Chip probably will go 3 QTs next time if they are up. Shutting it down in the 3rd quarter is asking for a comeback in the NFL where mistakes lead to 7 points.
    khiladi likes this.
  20. mooo89

    mooo89 New Member

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    They shut it down. They tired to do what any team does. Run the ball to run down the clock. The problem was that there was way too much time on the clock. You shut it down with 8 mins in the 4th QT. That way, even if you go 3 and out. you still have taken off 2 mins. So exe: 3 and out, they score, 3 and out, they score, knee, knee. game over. 8 minutes, four possessions.

    They eagles shut it down with well over 20 minutes. They simply handed the ball on every play. The Redskins knew what was coming, taking away their biggest weapons of unpredictability and speed. They became just another team. And then Avant fumbled on the 30 yard line. Giving the Redskins a short field and a quick strike.

    Prevent Defense + Shutting it down too early = Redskins getting points.

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