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News: Draft strategy/trade remains puzzling

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by Wood, May 2, 2013.

  1. Wood

    Wood Well-Known Member

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    By Clarence Hill

    Almost a week later, the decisions the Cowboys made in the first round of the NFL Draft remains puzzling, even troubling, to those inside and outside the Cowboys organization.

    It still is a sore subject among scouts, according to a source.

    Call them mess ups 1 and 1A.

    The decision to bypass Florida defensive tackle Shariff Floyd, who was ranked as a top-10 pick on the Cowboys draft board was first.

    Read more here: http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.co...ing-even-to-cowboys-scouts.html#storylink=cpy
  2. lurkercowboy

    lurkercowboy Active Member

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    Dallas traded 900 points for 820.

    Yes, it is uneven, but how do people figure they should have gotten another 2nd rounder thrown in? That would be way off balance.
  3. dboyz

    dboyz Active Member

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    The real news I see is that he says we wanted Pugh above Frederick.

    xwalker will not like that.
  4. Cowboys22

    Cowboys22 Well-Known Member

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    The article was moving along nicely and totally believable until he says a source inside the teams says they should have got back 31 plus a 2nd and 3rd round pick. The story is either made up or that source is a dimwitted janitor that has no clue. That would have been the greatest trade in Cowboys history outside of the Herscel Walker trade. No way that was even remotely possible and it brings doubt to this entire article. Makes me think he has no source and just tried to make up something that sounded reasonable but screwed it up. Even on the old chart, the missing value was equivalent to a 5th or 6th rounder not a 2nd.
  5. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    I think some are getting things a little mixed up.

    Originally on the Cowboys Draft shows or talking cowboys show they went through the scenario of trading with San Fran.

    The idea was that we would swap 1st round picks. Get a third and then swap 2 round picks to even it out.

    So the Cowboys would trade picks....

    1st Round 18th overall 900 points

    2nd Round 47th overall 430 points
    Total of 1330 Points.

    San Fran would trade Picks...

    1st Round 31st overall 600 points
    2nd Round 40th overall 500 points
    3rd Round 74th overall 220 points
    Total of 1320 points

    That would mean that they would only give up 10 points of value which is nothing.

    However instead it went like this...

    Dallas gave up picks...

    1st round 18th overall 900 points

    San Fran gave up...

    1st round 31st overall 600 points
    3rd round 74th overall 220 points
    Total of 820 points.

    So instead of swapping 1st round picks, Swapping 2nd round picks and getting their third for a total of 10 points difference on the chart in our favor. We just swapped firsts and got their third for a total of 80 points difference on the chart in their favor.

    Hope that makes sense.


    Heck we could have just swapped 1st round picks. Left the 2nd round picks as is, got their third round pick AND taken their 6th round pick 180 overall for say 20 points (chart I seen was 19.4).

    So they would still come ahead.

    18 = 900

    31= 600
    74 = 220
    180 = 20
    Total = 840

    So EVEN if we added the 6th round pick...the 49ers would still be getting a 60 point swing in their favor.
  6. morasp

    morasp Well-Known Member

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    Kind of sounds like the coaches and scouts are out of touch with each other.

    I'm not certain that if Sheldon Richardson would have fallen the results might have been different. Even if Jerry only wanted OL or Safety if the coaches said we like this guy it sounds like we would have pulled the trigger.
  7. DBOY3141

    DBOY3141 Well-Known Member

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    I still go back to if Kiffen and Marinelli did not think Floyd could fit there system then who cares what the scouts say. I trust those two guys.

    Lots of teams had Floyd rated higher than the pick they selected. Why is no one bashing those teams. Giants sure could have used him as there interior line is trash.

    How about why did SF give up a 3rd round pick to take a safety who most folks thought was a 2nd round safety? But I know that answer, SF went to the SB last year so all there picks make sense and they do nothing wrong. I didn't see Baltimore reach for a safety and they took the one that most folks had rated higher than Reid.

    I like the trade and I like the pick. The league is about offense and our OL is trash.
  8. jjktkk

    jjktkk Active Member

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    Just for the Frederick selection imo. Seems like the rest of the draft picks were a shared consensus from the scouts, coaches, Jerry, etc...
  9. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Yeah. He was wrong.

    He should have said a 2nd instead of a 3rd, not a 2nd and a 3rd.

    Either way, the 3rd they recevied was an early 3rd (74th) and the trade was withing a 10% margin.
    Bottom line is that's what the market was at that point in the draft. Take it or leave it.
  10. bbailey423

    bbailey423 Well-Known Member

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    all I know is that the Center we got fills an IMMEDIATE hole. The DT would have filled a hold down the line. The WR we got fills and IMMEDIATE hole......a 3rd WR to take advadtadge of all the attention paid to Miles, Witten and Dez...that has been missing since we lost Laurent Robinson. Going forward...we have to look at this from the standpoint of what we get from the C/WR vs how productive the DT will be.

    Don't get me wrong. I am not defending what Jones did from a proccess standpoint. He simply does not sleep, eat and breathe this stuff enough to weild the power he does. But that is the problem when the owner and the GM are the same people.
  11. Flinger

    Flinger Active Member

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    To your point - we trade 1 and get 2... People seem to forget we have another player, with tremendous potential, on our roster that simply would not have been on our roster if this trade was not made. Could we have gotten still another? No. That was all we were offered.

    So for us to lose out in this deal, Floyd must be greater than Frederick AND Williams combined. Of course, different teams and schemes. But, time will tell.
  12. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I think that was a pretty good article. Don't like all the meat coming from an anonymous source, but it's a fair take.

    I do think it's typical that more ink goes to them not getting enough value in the trade down than goes to the fact that the guy they ended up with with that third round pick was a guy they had rated as a high second round talent, anyway.

    They got stuck. They were committed to getting an interior OL early. They took a bad trade, and ended up with two players they really like in the process. Call it a day, there's nothing to see here.
  13. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    The 49ers pick was originally 34 not 40. They traded down during the draft.
  14. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    I think everyone has gotten confused about the exact details but there is no way Dallas would trade #18 for #31 and a second and third round pick. Those values just don't work out at all.

    I think we probably should have argued for either the low second rounder from the 49ers or alternatively another 4th rounder.

    In the end, if Frederick ends up being really good and Marinelli didn't want Floyd and Frederick was one of the top players on the board at #31 when we were choosing then I"m okay with everything.

    The bottom line is that we didn't covet anyone at #18 and it was a buyer's market for that pick with only the 49ers bidding in the end with us badly wanting to trade down knowing they could get one of their targets later on.

    To me the bigger mistake was probably not trading down from #31 to around #40 where I think Frederick would have represented a better value based on most people's prospect rankings. The issue though is that it only takes one team to value him higher for that to fall apart and cause us to lose our target.

    I think there is probably some dissension in the organization about how disorganized the decision-making process appeared to be. I think this is an issue because the GM was not directing the scouts enough in regards to change in defensive philosophy and what kinds of players Kiffen/Marinelli were looking for in the draft to fill out their defense. It is at this level that I think the GM, scouts/Garrett and Kiffen/Marinelli were on different pages and caused a huge commotion when the draft did not fall as people expected and what was the minimum value they would accept in a trade down versus just making the pick at #18 wasn't clear enough. I think this is a problem because our GM has his attention split too many different directions. At this time of the year he needs to be 100% focused on the draft and vet FA. His instructions to the scouts and coaches was obviously muddled resulting in an inability to find concensus at the critical juncture and forced him to make a decision that made many within the organization upset. This is a management problem that needs to be fixed.

    Now on a more pragmatic evaluation of the outcome, if they were just going to go against their board and draft TFred anyway at #18 because they valued a Center that much, then trading down to the max bidder in value points while still being able to acquire TFred looks like a gain because we pick up a 3rd rounder, get to pay him a lower salary and still get to keep him for 5 years before URFA. The fact of the matter is that we took the best offer and did get added value compared to drafting TFred at #18. We also ended up being able to acquire one of our top 2nd round WR targets with that 3rd round pick anyways so it all worked out in the end. I think the whole intention was the acquire two second rounders one high and one low for our first rounder so we could fill the hole at Center and find a WR to groom as Austin's replacement and who could act as a substutute starter for one of Dez or Austin in a pinch next year. So I very much think that we got our objective filled in the end with Terrence Williams falling to us unexpectedly in the end.

    I hope this whole kerfuffle encourages Jerry to hire a full-time director of player personnel or a GM to help in situations like this. Someone who has a high authority and oversees all personnel decisions and only personnel decisions will result in more clarity and better communication between the FO, coaches and scouts. I think Jerry failed to ensure everyone is on the same page so he is rightly being criticized regarding process. Unfortunately, he is not accountable to anyone other than himself so nothing will be done. We may even lose a valuable employee if they decide they can no longer continue to work for him. I hope this doesn't happen but I believe it is a distinct possibility. You could argue it would be easy to find someone willing to do the job but it may not be that easy to find someone who is good at the job.
  15. NorthTexan95

    NorthTexan95 Active Member

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    You know Jerry is a dealer ... I'm certain Jerry did ask for more but he couldn't put a gun to SF's head and force them to get more. If Dallas had taken a later 3rd they probably could have gotten another pick. Personally, I think Dallas was targeting the early 3rd and no one offered them a better deal.
  16. Verdict

    Verdict Well-Known Member

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    Could we have gotten better value? Yes. Could we have gotten worse value? Yes. As long as they were happy with it, let it go. LOL.
  17. CIWhitefish

    CIWhitefish Member

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    No doubt. Who cares what chart people go by and who they could have gotten. Fact is we picked two good players instead of one. We took that shot and only time will tell if it was a good one. All this Monday Morning GMing is pointless and does nothing unless you got a drum to beat. I for one I'm weary of it.
  18. Wheeltax

    Wheeltax Well-Known Member

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    Charts and mocks and boards and predictions and scenarios can only do so much. Like any other trading market, there are so many variables that it's impossible to really predict or grade value until the process is already moving. There was a run on O-Line, the Dallas coaches saw more value in the trade than in Floyd, they took what was available.

    The trade value is just like with cars; you can say all day long that your car is worth X amount, but the reality is that it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and that's dictated by the market. Compared to other trades in this particular draft, the Dallas trade down was not a bad one.
  19. Wood

    Wood Well-Known Member

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    I think the emphasis of the article is not so much on X & O's of slotting players/trade value - it was how decisions were being made. It does not sound at all like scouts and coaches were in tandem. I would think there should be some discussion before the draft to 'who fits' and 'who doesn't'. I get the sense the scouts didn't know the coaches didn't think the player was a fit until they were on the clock and had to make decision. Poorly run draft room.
  20. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    Poorly run draft room? With those results, the seven players the Cowboys actually got, I'll gladly take a 'poorly run draft room.'

    Heck, with the results we got from the draft room this year, I just wish our team was 'coached as equally poorly.'

    Perhaps if we just let Jason Garrett coach a game with similar responsibilities he had in the draft room (didn't see him do anything other than talk to JJ's daughter and high-five after a selection), we'd get better results.

    It appeared Garrett didn't do squat during draft day. And it appears the Cowboys got 7 pretty good picks. Any connection?:)

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