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Floyd not starter for vikes

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by MakeNoise4TheBoys, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that the OL was serviceable, at best. I don't think it was ever what I would call really good from the mid 90s on. However, that's really beside the point to me. Teams value certain positions over others. It's part of how they run their drafts. For 30 years, we just didn't take OLs in the 1st round, not because we didn't need them or because we never had the opportunity but because we didn't believe in taking OLs in the 1st round. We just didn't value them as much as other teams did. Now, that seems to be changing and I, for one, like the changes.
  2. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that this is part of the reason we have fallen on such hard times with this Franchise. I agree with you, for a good period of time, we were able to find OL talent in later rounds and it did work for us. I think that over the past 10 or 15 years, that kinda went out the window and it forced us to start paying for FAs and generally doing things that were not good for the team, long term. We've come full circle and now, we are using high picks on OLs. I'm OK with that. If that's what it takes to get guys who can keep our QB upright and clear room for RBs in short yardage, I'm OK with it. I'm flat tired of watching our offense stall inside the 3 because we either can't pick up the hard yards or we can't pick up the blitz.
  3. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the complete history of the Cowboys we very seldom drafted OL in rd 1, that was always reserved for so called skill players. OL could be had in 2nd or 3rd round.

    I don't know if it is right or wrong I guess I would just say if it is working continue doing it but when it does not then change what you are doing.

    In this case Cowboys have taken OL in rd1 2 of the last 3 years because outside of FA we have not hit on later rds with OL
  4. CoCo

    CoCo Well-Known Member

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    Immaterial, IMO, that Dallas hadn't spent a 1st at O-line since Howard Richards. We have the NFL's all-time leading rusher. And before him Dorsett got as high as 2nd I believe. Not to mention the success of Staubach, White & Aikman. Obviously we've had great O-lines regardless how we did it.

    Then came the struggles of 2010 and people cried neglect - probably rightfully so. It was THEN that the cries began for Jones to invest in the O-line. Some claimed he never would, pointing to history (Richards), subsequent draft pick failures (Rogers, Petermen, the 2009 guy, etc) and failure to ante up big for Grubbs and/or the ex-Saint who went to Tampa (forget his name).

    But the documented truth is that Jones has invested resources in the O-line be they picks, or FA's (Rivera, Davis, Kosier). And most recently the two #1's - Smith & Frederick. Late to the dance in this situation? Yes. Investments of questionable return at times? Yes.

    But I don't know how you make a case when you look at history that Dallas doesn't value its O-line. Shoot its one of the rationale's people use to de-value Emmitt's accomplishments.
  5. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree, seldom have we taken guys in the 1st round in this Franchise on the OL, and I think that the reason for this is explained in how the game has evolved. In the past, you could get quality run blockers in the later rounds. You had more time to develope talent. In the last 15 years or so, the league has changed so much and the positions now call for guys who are superior pass blockers and athletes. Those guys are harder to find at the bottom of the draft now and even if you do find guys who could develop, you have less and less time to develop them. I think the changes in the sport have forced changes in how you evaluate players and how you draft. Our Franchise, for whatever reason, was very slow to recognize or adopt that approach, for whatever reason.
  6. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Immaterial if it is only discussed in the context of those 90s teams. Very material if you look at our Franchise over the last 10 or 15 years. the "investment" in FAs over the past several years really only served to hurt us in the long run. We don't have anything to show for those overly large contracts, they only made it harder to bring in other needed help in other areas and they prevented us from moving on from those players more quickly.
  7. CoCo

    CoCo Well-Known Member

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    It hurts the org when we don't get value for our investments because resources (cap room & draft picks) are obviously limited. It doesn't really matter if its a vet FA or failed draft pick IMO.

    But my only point really was that people point to Howard Richards as an example of the org not valuing the O-line. I just don't think it holds water. And now that Jerry has spent two #1's on the O-line, he doesn't fit in that neat little box anymore either.
  8. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I probably would have to stop a bit short of that. I would go so far as to say that if this approach continues, then that box should be put away. However, I don't think that two drafts is enough empirical evidence to definitively say that Jerry has changed. I've seen, all too often, a change in direction that eventually leads back to the original course after a season or two. I applaud the decisions and I hope that Jerry and this organization have indeed learned the value of OLs early in the draft but Jerry earned every bit of scorn for his past decisions, where the OL is concerned. He's going to have to prove that he has, in fact, changed before I can actually believe the he won't jump the shark again.
  9. CoCo

    CoCo Well-Known Member

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    Ok. One last clarification. I really don't want to tit-for-tat on this. :)

    Since 1989 when Jones bought the team have we had more success or failure on the O-line? Seems to me its the former, though the last 2-3 years its been the latter.

    And in that 2-3 years he has spent resources: Brewster (3rd) (this after he was supposedly taking Unger before Seattle swooped in), FA's when our cap room is admittedly quite tight (Livings, Bernadeau), shelling out big $ for Free in his FA year, Tyron & Frederick in 2011 & 2013 drafts.

    And in that early 90's domination we spent resources then too - Step, Allen, Williams to name the most prominent. Flozell later. Then Gurode & Johnson. Martin, Rogers & Petermen were all busts for us but 2nd & 3rd round choices. Then Rivera, Kosier & Davis as FAs. To spend MORE resources was to risk neglect elsewhere.

    A better success ration with those O-line investments would've certainly been welcome. But I just don't see a gross undervaluing of the O-line positions over time.

    At the same time I'll confess i wanted more O-line from this past draft than a single pick. We need certainty that this problem area has been fixed.
  10. The Natural

    The Natural Well-Known Member

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    :laugh2:
  11. CyberB0b

    CyberB0b Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    I didn't mind passing on Floyd. There was a reason why he dropped so far. I didn't like the trade. I thought we got fleeced.
  12. Macnalty

    Macnalty Active Member

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    IMO we already have an Eifert kit in James Hanna with faster wheels, similar hands and blocking skills. No one catches balls like Escobar especially when contested he is in a league all his own (Ok maybe Dez). I am positive he will be a nightmare for defenses in the redzone when Dez, Witten, Miles, and Gavin are out in routes someone with a star is coming down with the ball. Just pray to your god that the OLine holds out.
  13. TheRomoSexual

    TheRomoSexual Well-Known Member

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    Let's say SF traded us pick 61...would you have been upset if we took T. Williams at 61? Because I wouldn't have been, and based on our board, we would have taken at 61 anyway.
  14. Zordon

    Zordon Well-Known Member

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    oh brother so I get called out yet you have no issue with the OP who's using the fact that floyd hasn't developed into warren sapp two months from being drafted all for the sake of protecting jerruh? BP you're better than that and you know my previous statement is true as well.
  15. ThreeandOut

    ThreeandOut Well-Known Member

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    Agree, the issue isn't so much undervaluation of OL as it is miss evaluation of OL. They simply missed on too many 2nd and 3rd round OL's from 2003-9. If they had hit on at least a couple of these picks, the OL wouldn't be as much of a problem area.
  16. ThreeandOut

    ThreeandOut Well-Known Member

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    If this happened in Dallas, a lot of posters and media would be calling him a bust.
  17. unionjack8

    unionjack8 Well-Known Member

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    lol at people trying to say that kevin williams is a space eater. He's one of the very best interior pass rushers in the league, is a multi time all pro and its quite obvious that Floyd was drafted to replace him as a pass rushing DT from the 3 tech because Williams will 99% be released next off season due to his cap #.

    But yeah Floyd is a NT only lmfao at the rhetoric on this site.
    Its ok to like Frederick AND acknowledge that Floyd is a 3 tech without being a "hater"
  18. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    He was, not so much anymore.
  19. unionjack8

    unionjack8 Well-Known Member

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    he'd start on this team
  20. Sarge

    Sarge Red, White and Brew... Staff Member

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    This....

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