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News: Goose: As long as Jerry Jones is a 'part-time GM,' Cowboys won't be SB contenders

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by Risen Star, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    How does Danny White play into all of this?
  2. Mr_Bill

    Mr_Bill Member

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    I suspect this thread will last easily until training camp. ;)
  3. dwmyers

    dwmyers Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, anybody who does ads and works a job can't win a Superbowl.. :/

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8do9Y1rwQeA[/youtube]

    D-

    Note: the youtube tag isn't working the way I'd like.

    The video (Tom Landry's American Express commercial) is here.
  4. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    No idea what you are asking me.
  5. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    Serious question Hos on the section of your post that I highlighted. How did the scouting department "prepare a plan to acquire him"?

    Not trying to be a ******** but it wasn't much of a plan since A) Romo went undrafted and B) Romo took less money to come to Dallas (Denver offered him more money). I fail to see where the scouting department had a whole lot to do with it. If they thought that highly of him and formulated a plan, you'd think they could have convinced the team to pony up another 10 grand.
  6. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    You don't think a team can decide they're going to try and acquire players?

    How did we sign Ron Leary so quickly after the Draft then?

    Do you think Dallas knew how much Denver offered? I don't. That was Romo's choice.
  7. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    No guy, I always enjoy discussing features about the team. A quarterback coach was added, in addition to the previous influences of Sean Payton. White? Who was sidlined even for a period of time, on steriod charges as a coach. He used it in healing an injury. But his leadership was beneficial as well.

    My point being that Parcells wasn't the man who was behind the actual rise of Tony Romo, his mechanics considered.

    Where Parcells made his influence, was clarifying what was commitment and focus...both during play and around the game itself.

    ...Hos is almost always spot on in his additions. I would have to spend more time in research daily, than I have time allowed to do in the present. I am thankful for his, and yes, your additions here. To set the story straight.
  8. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    You never grasp information, do you, plain and simply. Fasano was his first great pick. (at his double tight end desire...so you don't get lost yet again) He reminded him of Bavarro, another Bill's player. The same formula he used generally to acquire Bobby Carpenter and his 'injured' tackle, the USC tackle already referred to and you again ignored as it couldn't be used by you to justify something about your own statement. Period.

    My reference to White was that he worked closely, as did Sean Payton, to help Tony Romo arrive to where he currently is as a quarterback. I'd say he did help to bring Tony Romo greatly into his own as to mechanics.

    Let's see: 0 for about 45 now...
  9. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    :) shhhh, Junk might respond.:starspin

    Bill, good stuff as always, man...and got to love the potentials coming up.

    First, defense shapes victory.

    That applies to all levels of defenses. A Raven type of dominant, provides a need of about fourteen to twenty points as the margin for victory.

    Prior to this season, and recently, Dallas needed about 24 points to be in the running.


    Second, offenses pave the way for victory.

    Teams have to score more than the amount surrendered. Here, with an improved defense, Dallas should cover more and more of those balances. Even against teams as the Eagles and Giants.

    I'm with you, this should be a very interesting off season....:starspin
  10. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    I'd think you be surprised how many franchises use media information (mock drafts especially) to help with the decision making, it's part of the "building the board process". Dallas has always used a "mock board" to project where players will be selected before and after their picks.


    If you believe that outside information influenced a decision and reflects poorly on the front office than you have to include Parcells and his scouting department as part of what you take issue with.
  11. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Will Jerry Jones ever get out of this team's way so we can win a SuperBowl? We talk about corners, linebackers, 3rd WRs all day. But the real problem is the worst GM in football.

    Jon Machota: I believe he's doing it right now. My belief is that Jason Garrett has a lot more say than the fans think. Other than the Claiborne pick, the last two drafts have been filled with Garrett-type players. Not to say that Claiborne isn't a Garrett-type player but Garrett doesn't seem like a guy that would trade up in the draft. He seems a little bit too conservative to be doing moves like that. But I've been wrong before.

    And I like the Claiborne move. Really didn't give up that much and you get the best defender in the draft, at a position of MAJOR need.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/da...e-cowboys-up-i-think-he-s-already-started.ece
  12. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    Something a lot of folks have overlooked.
  13. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Now, talking about where the tight end fits in today at Dallas, and not just trying to explain any involvement with a Jerry Jones. Substituting some kind of spontaneous Bill Parcells' glory instead...

    how about we leave the anger handles in the past, and take a quick look at talent and personnel there, instead.

    Just to start a mental picture, consider:

    In Star Magazine, July 2012, pg. 13 - Ben Bayer asks ... is James Hanna showing progress, and would he be a weapon this year?

    Josh Ellis: Like the rest of the rookies, he's learning. That really all you could say for most of those guys during Organized Team Activities and minicamp. But the athleticism is obvious with Hanna. He's the fastest tight end - more like a wide receiver, really, than any of the guys they've had recently - and I think we'll see coaches playing toward his strengths when he's in the game.

    He's not a prototypical blocker, exactly. So, until he can bulk up a bit and hone his technique in that aspect, I think you'll see him split out wide, mostly. The amount of work he gets this year will depend on how well he picks up the offense.

    (Did yet another person mention the effects of Mike Woicik?)
  14. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    But you said he brought in Witten to complement Fasano.

    http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4611825&postcount=419

    How can you say I never grasp information when you struggle with the timelines and the players involved in the discussion?


    Wade Wilson. Danny White has never coached for the Cowboys.

    Wade Wilson didn't start coaching the Cowboys until 2007. The start of Romo's second year as a starter and the start of Romo's 5th year in the league.

    David Lee and Sean Payton probably spent the most time working with Romo

    I'm 0-45? :confused: You might want to sit a few plays out there, champ.
  15. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    You bore at high octane.

    What, you are unable to be given a group of simple building blocks, with A, B, and C....and arrange them?

    What does Parcells adding a 'dominant' double end set to the offens, only having Fasano on the roster mean then?

    Please tell all...or just go back to explaining all that had child hood measles they will now die from shingles when old....:rolleyes:

    OH, and just give up all topics inclusive of logic....:cool:

    Scorn and a burn barrel are much more natural there.





    By the way, try plugging some of that posterior anatomical body part of yours back into some of the actual topic being developed just above your narrow eye brows above...and comment upon those new statements.



    OH, and the ONLY time you add information, is to try and look smart yourself, not for topic effects...go figure, uh, never mind. But excuse me when you really weren't clever enough to have brought that out yourself.


    Hence a nickname...O fer'
  16. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    :laugh2:

    How am I supposed to have a discussion with you when you don't get anything right? You are trying to make some point about Fasano, but you don't even know when he was brought in?

    You talk about building blocks, but there aren't any. Just a bunch of disassociated, incorrect statements.

    Let's restart the discussion. I'd be happy to debate the merits of Parcells and his time in Dallas.

    The original discussion about Parcells involved Zaxor's stance that Parcells wasn't building with an eye to the future. You seem to just want to disparage Parcells in general.

    What do you want to discuss? The argument that Parcells did not build towards the future or Parcells impact in Dallas? Tell me where you'd like the discussion to go, I'll present my case and we can discuss.
  17. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    I agree with that. I think I even alluded to it in my earlier post. If Gosselin had some ranking information he had culled from sources around the league, it may very well have given them confidence Spears would be there at 20 and they could (and should) take Ware earlier.

    However, the original post made it seem like Gosselin had written up a scouting report that was so impressive to Jerry that it actually swayed the decision making process.

    Absolutely.

    I certainly defend Parcells here because I think he gets a bum rap from some. I do think he was a positive move for the franchise and really turned them around. That doesn't mean he didn't really screw some things up too.
  18. dreghorn2

    dreghorn2 Well-Known Member

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    You have the patience of Job.
  19. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    You have negligent listening skills. You merely await points that tie directly into an emotion that you present. Often that is an extranged element that merely comingles with a stereotyped name that has been given to general elements of the time that Bill Parcells was with the Cowboys.

    You continually discard defining element that cross compare what occured then as related to now.

    Zaxor presented an indept picture of the change occuring during the Parcells' 'Cowboy era.'

    That was to point to, not legend of his accomplishments, to provide adequate comparative value of what he actually did while here.

    Instead of dealing with the aspects already brought from sources, and applied to specific principals, you merely redefined a comment to include the mood of your initial comment.

    This thread, although, isn't a Hos's just get it off your chest thread. It started on an assumption by a media, that stereotypes and returns to the insultive vein. Applying humor, Jerry is now being blamed for starting the measles epidemic now, but instead, with the Senior Citizens through Shingles.

    Don't tell me, you don't understand at all...wait, your Dick Tracy decoder ring will be in the mail.:rolleyes:

    You ignore actual points:

    Bill Parcells drafted, as major indicators of his 'era,' such players as Bobby Carpenter, a broken down USC tackle, and he wanted Spencer. That alone would have removed DeMarcus Ware from ever being a Cowboy. No Jerry stood up for a group's decision. If Bill had ONLY had 'Bill's guys,' then Ware would NOT have been a Cowboy. Period. And this team would be in a completely different dynamic today. Period.

    The listing of the exact draft class under Bill was provided by Zaxor and I brought 2006 into a snapshot posting.

    But a big part of the picture of Bill's FOUR SEASONS as Head Coach for the Cowboys, spearheaded on the acquistion attempt by that same Bill for.. and here, the visible top face was:

    2003, was Bill Parcell's first year with the Cowboys - He picked up Terence Newman, Jason Witten, and Bradie James. Here, Newman proved serviceable, and Jason Witten became a great player. Bradie James served as a transition player for the changed defensive scheme that came in with Bill. That was a solid start to things.

    2004, the following were added: Julius Jones, cornerbacks Jacques Reeves and Nate Jones, and college quarterback turned wide receiver Patrick Crayton. The loudest 'clunk' was heard in the second and third rounds, when Jacob Roger and Stephen Peterman were drafted.

    2005: From top to bottom, it was a pretty solid draft. But at the top, Bill wanted Marcus Spears. That alone would have trickled down to today. Simply, DeMarcus Ware would not be a Cowboy now. Hey, Bill developed him up, once he was a Cowboy. That part can't be argued. But an overview is being approahed here.

    2006: Saw the emergence of a purely Bill Parcells pick, Bobby Carpenter. That alone derailed the dramatic development of the 3-4 scheme.

    That is the Bill era through the building from the draft.

    Let's see, the team hit with Terence Newman. It hit with Jason Witten. It hit with Jay Ratliff. It luckily hit with DeMarcus Ware.



    But the face from directing from Bill, was shown through the draftings of Julius Jones, Jacob Rogers, a preference for Marcus Spears, and Bobby Carpenter and that Terence Newman.

    Sorry, that part of the high effort picture leaves something less than grandeur in one's eye...

    I can't argue that Bill put the team into the playoffs. He accomplished that element of being a strong coach.

    But the twist came in when comparing that with what is occuring today.

    Basicly, Bill took his men on to Miami, that provided that base level personnel references. Bill trusted them, but they failed, generally with Miami as well.

    Jerry was left behind, and had to reforge the process from within...

    but let's take a snap shot look at what has transpired under the GM's leadership and with Wade Phillips and now Jason Garrett...

    2008: Felix Jones and Mike Jenkins

    2009: This appears to be the changing point in how Dallas approached both player drafting as well as overal player retention and development projected over time. The two players retained to now, from this draft are really John Phillips and Victor Butler. That and Stephen McGee.

    I don't mind adding here, that was the Roy Williams influenced draft. There were some real gambles that were added onto the roster then as well.

    That said, we turn to the more recent and direction forging decisions:

    2010: Dez Bryant and Sean Lee

    2011: Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter, DeMarco Murray

    2012: Morris Claiborne

    Now, just venturing a picture, albeit a tad premature, it appears that the Dallas system under Jerry Jones, and with a now Head Coach, is laying together some strength, every bit as positive as what was added under Bill Parcells. If in fact, it hasn't improved the view at present.

    But that point, isn't a source for insult are a high ground as in a ring tapper or pessimist.
  20. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Not ironically, there never was a fool involved...

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