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Gun Control (NIU)

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by AbeBeta, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    In the wake of the tragedy at NIU and reports that Steven Kazmierczak purchased all of his guns legally and without difficulty, I'd love to hear what folks have to say about gun control.
  2. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Not a very sound argument in my opinion. Someone as deranged as this, with a desire to kill people, could obtain the means to mass murder whether guns are legal or not.
  3. Aikbach

    Aikbach Active Member

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    A depraved man who abused his freedoms, he could've used a number of objects as a murder weapon, guns were his weapon of choice.

    Human beings are murderers and not inanimate objects, even those designed for hunting and self-defense.

    Those that want to scapegoat the second amendment for someone's mental psychosis need to get a grip themselves.
  4. rbr651

    rbr651 Active Member

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    Gun control does not work, ask the Canadians. The biggest hurdle would be to round up the guns in the first place, some might turn in there firearms but the vast majority would not, which would leave many guns still on the streets. We've all heard it before " Make owning guns criminal, and only criminals will own guns" it's true and this is what would happen. Should the person who abides by the law not be able to hunt? That's not really fair. Society should not suffer because of few idiots do. There is some control over firearms right now, but S#@% happens. It sucks what happened at NIU and what happens all over the country everyday but I don't think outlawing guns is the answer.
  5. Aikbach

    Aikbach Active Member

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    Precisely, I live a humble existence in downtown Los Angeles and on the outskirts of South Central, I hear gun shots once a month from Mexican gang hooligans, many of them illegal aliens, trying to scare one another and posture their toughness.
    I'm not afraid of the guns, I'm afraid of the idiots who have them and I assure you the odds of them having been acquired legally and with registration is near zero.
    Despite this I cherish the second amendment for if one comes through my door he will soon meet his maker as a repercussion.
  6. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Sure. But I'm going to guess that a college kid like this guy wouldn't necessarily even know where to start to get something illegally. I'm sure you know guys just like him - think about grad students you know -- would they really know where to get a gun illegally?

    The kid had mental illness issues -- yet he can still legally buy a gun?
  7. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Society seems to suffer following an event like this. So your "few idiots running our fun" argument is hollow to me.

    I don't think anyone is saying there should be no legal way to get a gun but when a mentally ill person can walk into a store and buy guns legally there seems to be a giant sized hole in the controls that are currently in place.
  8. CowboyFan74

    CowboyFan74 RAWR

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again, gun control is hitting your target the 1st time...
  9. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    Why would you assume this?

    I was a grad student, and I knew many grad students. Anyone of us could've easily determined how to purchase a gun illegally.

    The bottom line here, however, is this: Gun control legislation has never proven to be an effective deterrent to violent crime, despite years of enforcement and numerous crime bills.
  10. SultanOfSix

    SultanOfSix Star Power

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    That it's a bandaid over a gun shot wound (pun intended): people's lack of morality.
  11. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    You know how to do so in THEORY -- but how many of you would legitimately know someone specific to get it from? That is how many of you have legit connections to pull this off vs. just being smart kids who sorta know where you do something like that but no real means to pull it off.

    The lack of deterrent argument seems odd given that presently the laws are very liberal in allowing legal purchase. So saying "gun control" doesn't work really means that what we currently have in place sucks.
  12. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    ...in precisely the same manner that grad students detemine where they should purchase their pot or any one of the myriad of illegal drugs that are so prevalent on college campuses.

    Not really. The deterrent argument is perfectly valid when we consider that the passage of anti-gun laws seldom, if ever, leads to a reduction in violent crime. In fact, states and cities with the most restrictive gun laws normally have the highest crime rates.
  13. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    So if he is Gay should that change how we think about Homosexuals?

    Another stupid argument from abersonc
  14. jman

    jman Active Member

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    As Archie Bunker said..."Would you feel better if they were pushed out of windows?"

    This has absoulty nothing to do with gun conrtol. It has everything to do with personal responsibility.
  15. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Smart grad students should be able to figure it out. They can get drugs easily. I'm sure finding a gun wouldn't be much more of a problem. Especially if you're determined enough to go through with something like this.
  16. jman

    jman Active Member

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    Okay...you be the first, please release all your medical records for all to see. That's the only way to stop a mentally ill person from legally purchasing a gun. And by the way, what mental issues are on the list to restrict a person from buying a gun?

    Can they be on their medication and functioning normally be okay? If so, for how long? Or would you have a question on the application that ask if they have stopped their medication without their doctors approval?
  17. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Dude -- you can buy drugs on most campuses and they are much much more prevalent on campus than guns.

    or the states with the highest gun crime rates are the ones that respond by passing stronger legislation -- of course at a state level you don't get the "bang" you would at a federal level
  18. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    We have rules governing who can and can't drive a car -- you have to pass various tests, etc. Why wouldn't it be the same with a firearm? You could use the same personal responsibility argument with driving -- but we don't.
  19. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Mental problems go in waves -- a longer waiting period, requirements of gun safety courses, passing tests like we do to drive, etc. would serve to weed many of these folks out.
  20. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    I haven't heard any arguments yet for why it shouldn't be hardered to get a gun -- aside from the NRA sponsored gun laws don't work spiel.

    I really want to understand why folks would oppose a 30-day waiting period, safety courses, etc.

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