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Here is how a team is built

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by mmillman, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. mmillman

    mmillman Well-Known Member

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    Aaron Curry in 2009 is not on the team and maybe not in the league that was a whiff by another GM and coach, sound familiar

    2010 was Okung at 6 I believe and he has been hurt most of the time

    2011 was Carpenter late and he has been injured also.

    2012 Bruce Irvin. contributor pass rushing but doesn't start

    My point is despite what you and others are saying Seattle didn't build by drafting in the top ten for 5 years and acquire obvious elite talent. They were built in Free agency and solid drafting in the middle rounds.
  2. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    we've continued that with guys like scandrick, lissemore and brent.

    missing on players in rounds 1 and 2 is what kills you. bp had far too many misses there when he overruled his own scouts.

    we got ware but only because jerry intervened. bp was going to take the very mediocre marcus spears up there that high....

    he graded julius jones at the same level as stephen jackson.

    bp brought in good scouting personnel but he sucked as a main draft resource.

    our drafts have been good minus the terrible rw11 apocalypse where it seems we didnt bother to scout but rather threw darts on draft day.

    we've also brought in better street free agents than any team in football the past couple seasons: laurent, ernie sims et al.

    bp missing with his ol selections is what has us hurting along the ol right now.
  3. perrykemp

    perrykemp Well-Known Member

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    Here is how to build a Superbowl team:

    Draft a Top 3 QB -- think Aaron Rodgers in GB or Peyton Manning in Indy and then every year keep drafting WRs, TEs, and offense in general to make sure that top 1-3 QB always has plenty of targets.

    That approach doesn't guarantee Superbowl but it does mean you'll be in the running each and every year and eventually you'll probably win one.

    That's all.
  4. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    try reading the 1st line you replied to.

    the seahags were a bad team for 4 years in a row. they played 4th place schedules in a terrible conference and played a lot of young guys to see who could play. what they did is hardly amazing or rare. they had half a decade to rebuild into a young quality team.

    they were able to trade picks because they had high draft slots. that means they had more ammo than other teams.

    you are supposed to add talent when you are bad. you dont get special awards for turning it around in 5 years.

    carroll came in after 3 failed seasons and had young talent on the team and high draft picks to work with. the high salaries were mostly cleared out and he had tools to work with.

    and again, this year was largely based on running a new offensive system. once the nfl adjusts to that we'll see how seattle fares. it is ironic because this week they face the only other nfl team running that system.
    a team very like them that has been built through being bad for a while.
    you might as well have listed the redskins here.
    they have at least won a division.

    you are just holding on to a weak argument here.

    the seahags arent a model for team building at this point.
  5. RastaRocket

    RastaRocket Sanka, Ya Dead Mon? Ya Mon.

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    Was thinking the same thing.
  6. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    1 starter (not technically but Scandrick plays enough to be considered that) and a couple scrubs who haven't played and now won't play?

    Missing on players anywhere kills you. Would have been nice to hit on all our mid first rounders but that doesn't happen. We did enough in the later rounds to offset that - and what's more important, offset that economically. And where we didn't hit in the draft (OL) we were able to hit in free agency for affordable prices in most cases. We got alot of decent years out of Kosier and Colombo and a couple great ones out of Davis. We haven't even come close to replicating that success since our savior left town. What we've done is fail miserably and hope that Tony can be good enough to cover for all our holes.
  7. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    we've been under .500 for 17 years? or you mean you've cried tears 17 years?



    reading is fundamental.
  8. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    Are you saying don't worry about the defense?
  9. mmillman

    mmillman Well-Known Member

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    What are you taling about!!!!?!!!! Going back to what should be the core of the team.

    2008 draft was terrible. Two #1 draft picks and neither will be here this year. Scandrick will be here but is overpaid and he is the only thing left.
    2009 draft was abysmal. Of the few left no big contributors.
    2010 draft Dez and Lee. Dez is coming on but remains an off and on the field knucklehead and Lee ( slipped due to injury) remains injury prone but I would agree could be really good. The rest of the draft was poor.
    2011 is the injury plagued draft class but may be a good one if Smith ( who has been mediocre so far but I would agree has big upside - Ryan wanted Watt) Carter has had a half year of production and was injury prone in College again why he slipped. Murray, injury prone in college, injury prone here. Not much else
    2012 - too early but not seeing a lot past the potential of Claiborne

    By any standards that is terrible drafting, terrible maneuvering in free agency, terrible cap management and terrible trades.
  10. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    no offense but here are you simply batty.

    1. kosier wasn't cheap. 5m per year. 7 years ago.
    2. Bigg was VERY expensive and never a great value. he did have a great season then a good one followed shortly thereafter by let down.
    3. lissemore and brent were both playing tons of minutes and provided brent can remain out of jail both will continue to play tons of minutes. brent and lissemore could be starters. brent would have been the starter next year if he hadn't driven drunk.
    4. dallas main issue is not having elite level talent. you get that in r1 and r2 or overpaying it in free agency. bp missing so much early cost us elite level talent like stephen jackson.
    5. when we took barbie the next 2 picks were cromartie and tamba hali. that stings for years to come.
    6. after we took fasono is the same failed 2006 draft the next 4 picks were bernard pollard, andrew whitworth, chris chester and devin hester. again... ouch!!!!

    again bp did some good things but he wasnt a savior by any means. as seen by the 1 playoff win since he signed.
  11. mmillman

    mmillman Well-Known Member

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    Did you even read how they acquired their talent? Has nothing to do with being bad four years ago:

    CB Richard Sherman: Drafted in fifth round (No. 154), 2011
    S Kam Chancellor: Drafted in fifth round (No. 133), 2010
    LB K.J. Wright: Drafted in fourth round (No. 99), 2011
    RG J.R. Sweezy: Drafted in seventh round (No. 225), 2012
    Hidden gems (2)
    CB Brandon Browner: Signed in 2011 after playing in Canada
    DE Chris Clemons: Acquired in trade from Eagles, 2010
    The leftover bin (4)
    RB Marshawn Lynch: Acquired in trade from Bills, 2010
    RT Breno Giacomini: Signed off Packers' practice squad, 2010
    FB Michael Robinson: Signed in 2010 after 49ers released him
    LG Paul McQuistan: Signed in 2011
    Shopping list (3)
    WR Sidney Rice: Signed as unrestricted free agent in 2011
    TE Zach Miller: Signed as unrestricted free agent in 2011
    DT Alan Branch: Signed as unrestricted free agent in 2011

    Wagner, Tate and Unger were second round picks. Wilson was a third. All of the above were available to Dallas but by all means lets keep doing it the Jerry Jones way.
  12. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    This is interesting. I just posted almost the exact same thing in another thread.

    It may only be a wildcard but Seattle had done this in exactly the right way IMO. They have given up nothing to sign 9 starters, have drafted very well and yeah, that might be because they have been so bad for so long but we have also been bad for a very long time and we have not done nearly as well. Say what you want about the Division they play in but the NFC West is much improved and that trend is going to continue. They may be the toughest division in football in a couple more years. That's no Joke.
  13. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    1. That is/was cheap.
    2. I never claimed he wasn't just that we signed him and he played well, as opposed to someone like Free/Livings/Bdeaux/Cook
    3. Lissemore and Brent (particularly Lissemore) are the main reasons teams continued to run it right up the gut on us effectively all season.
    4. That isn't even close to Dallas's main issue. We have elite level talent at skill positions. We have no depth because since the Savior left we haven't been good late in the draft or in free agency - things we excelled at during His tenure.
    5&6. Whoop dee doo. You could do this for every pick in every draft.

    Our biggest problem with Bill was that we didn't have a QB. Then he left us with one. Then we stopped doing everything that turned our team around in the first place, and what we're left with is the aging core He left behind trying to pull along a roster of failed picks/FA pickups and a few blue chippers and little to no depth.
  14. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    You need a QB that can win a SB, an OL that allows you to run effectively enough to get the D to play you balanced in general, one good or better TE, good RBs three deep, at least two WRs who can make big plays and one who can stretch the field, a DL which can stop the run and pressure the QB some, OLBs who can contain or set the edge and get you 10-25 sacks a year, ILBs who can get to the ball and cover well enough, CBs who can tackle and cover decently, and safeties who can tackle and make some plays. You need a very good place kicker, good punter and STs, and a PR who can make a big play on occasion. Teams need to protect the ball, take the ball away, and not make too many mistakes. Coaches need to get the most of their players and teach them sound football while finding a couple of leaders on each side of the ball. They must adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of their players while being sound in their schemes adapting in game as needed.

    You need playmakers. A QB who can carry the team at times while avoiding too many game killers. A RB who can break it on occasion and one who can get you a yard when needed. It's great to have a third down back who has the quicks as well as a WR, too. In this game you need to look for a TE who runs like a WR. You cannot cover a 6-6 gazelle. You must have a tackle who can protect the QBs blindside. It's great to have a C who can really play and call the offense and Gs who can pull.

    Right now O>>D but you need all three phases. Teams must have depth.

    IOWs there isn't a magic bullet to winning. Oh, throw in luck, lack of injuries, and breaks from the refs and the football gods. Then you might win.
  15. mmillman

    mmillman Well-Known Member

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    :bow:
    finally, someone that gets it. Seattle didn't build by being bad. Their core was mid round picks, free agency and trades. Okung is the only contributing high first round pick.

    My guess is Seattle is going to beat Washington. San Francisco is going to win. St Louis has a pile of picks, thanks to RG3 trade, to build a good team.
  16. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Last post before you go on ignore for being too goofy to discuss with.

    In 2008 we drafted 6 players. EVERY PLAYER has started NFL games. That isn't poor drafting at all. If Mike Jenkins is gone it is because he is getting big money elsewhere. That isn't a draft miss. Barbie was a draft miss. Jacob Rogers. Aaron Curry. Not guys who start 30+ NFL games at CB.

    2009 was an abortion of a draft to be sure. It was a very soft draft overall
    and we traded off our top picks for RW11.

    2010 has produced Dez, Lee, Lissemore and Brent. That's a VERY, VERY good haul. Dez and Lee have displayed Pro Bowl caliber talent. Both rank in the top 5 players on this football team.

    2011 produced Smith, Carter, Murray, Harris. That's again a quite good haul. 3 starters and our return stud.

    2012 has already produced Mo as a long-term starter, Crawford as a quality rotational DE who has passed BP's 1st rounder in Spears, a 6th round rookie TE in Hanna who is an actual receiving threat and Wilber who became a key special teams performer after missing much of the pre-season.
  17. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    1. That isn't just wrong it is almost willfully lying. 8m per year was the highest salary at OG in football at the time. Kosier got 5m. We paid him very well.
    3. Untrue. Brent was a primary run stuffer and our run stopping ability was terrible minus him. Lissemore may well have been exposed from having to play too many snaps and having to play NT when he is really a DE on run stopping downs.
    5/6. No, you can't. We arent talking about saying someone missed Tom Brady. We are talking about in the next few picks EVERY other pick was a legit NFL starting player and you took a total scrub.

    BP saved nothing but his pay checks and his leftovers. His team here and the Dolphins team he advised afterwards have won jack squat in a combined 10 seasons following him. He laid down nada for framework.
    We got Romo because of Payton and David Lee did most of the early work to get him game ready. BP takes the credit now.
  18. Proximo

    Proximo Well-Known Member

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    Very well stated. People fail to recognize how well Dallas has drafted the last 3 seasons and instead focus entirely on the drafts prior. If we can have a 2013 draft that matches any of the last 3 we will be in very good shape, and if we make the playoffs you could easily make a thread just like this and insert Dallas in place of Seattle.
  19. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    They look awfully good going forward though....regardless of this week's outcome.

    I agree with the post that says we drafted fairly well in 2010 and 2011 though.
  20. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    Blue Chips (Defined as High Picks)

    1. Sean Lee, 2nd round pick
    2. Bruce Carter, 2nd round pick
    3. DeMarco Murray, 3rd round pick
    4. Dez Bryant, 1st round pick
    5. Jason Witten, 3rd round pick
    6. DeMarcus Ware, 1st round pick
    7. Tyron Smith, 1st round pick
    8. Anthony Spencer, 1st round


    More bang for the buck (Late round finds)

    1. Jay Ratliff, 7th round
    2. John Phillips, 6th round
    3. Dwayne Harris, 6th round
    4. Josh Brent, 7th round
    5. Sean Lissemore, 6th round
    6. James Hanna, 6th round
    7. Victor Butler, 4th round
    8. David Arkin, 4th round
    9. Orlando Scandrick, 5th round
    10. Danny Coale, 5th round


    Hidden gems (People no one had a clue about and we scored)

    1. Tony Romo, UDFA
    2. Miles Austin, UDFA
    3. Barry Church, UDFA
    4. Cole Beasley, UDFA
    5. Lance Dunbar, UDFA
    6. Kevin Ogletree, UDFA
    7. Dan Bailey, UDFA
    8. Phil Costa, UDFA
    9. Alex Albright, UDFA
    10. Kevin Kowalski, UDFA
    11. Ron Leary, UDFA


    The Leftover Bin (Other Team's castoffs)

    1. Ernie Sims
    2. Charlie Peprah
    3. Dan Connor
    4. Kyle Orton
    5. Lawrence Vickers
    6. Brady Poppinga
    7. Mackenzy Bernadeau
    8. Nate Livings
    9. Sterling Moore
    10. Gerald Sensabaugh





    I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it looks to me like we're doing it the same way.

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