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Herman Johnson Takes Control/New Mock

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by 28 Joker, Feb 3, 2009.

  1. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    I'm glad you like it. I will be watching Loadholt closely. He has some off the field issues that could hurt him. If he fell to the first pick in round 4, it would be hard not to pull the trigger. He could be your future RT. Guys like Big Herm and Loadholt don't come around very often. Take them.
  2. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    Thanks.

    Yeah. I wish we would draft heavy on the o-line. In my opinion, that is where the Cowboys can clean up if they play their cards right. Free is a finesse player, and Watkins is physical. Free isn't the answer at LT. Adams is on his last legs, imo. His spot really concerns me. McQuistan needs to go, and Foster takes his job. Big Herm starts for 10 years, and Berger is gone.

    I have to figure out a way to get rid of Proctor, a player who wasn't drafted.
  3. cowboyjoe

    cowboyjoe Well-Known Member

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    CowboyJoe,

    I respect your opinion, like the other guys. However, I don't get taking Wood over Herm Johnson. The team needs a LG, and Herm Johnson and Duke Robinson are both better than Wood at guard. Wood gets his rating as a center and has the versatlity to play guard. Johnson can be plugged in immediately if need be. Wood is going to have to get stonger. He doesn't have Johnson's power and strength. How do we know Wood can anchor against NFL players at guard. Herm played the best front 7 players in the nation while in the SEC.

    Johnson played good at RT when you consider how tough a week he had. He is a guard, not a tackle.

    I do know the Cowboys need depth at linebacker, but I'm hoping Burnett is brought back. I would deal or cut Carpenter. The team needs to know that you can't just be a third stringer and collect a huge check.

    I agree about moving up a little bit, but I wouldn't give up too much and move way too far for a player like Brace. I wouldn't move up for any safety in this draft. I would let the meat and potato guys fall in my lap or move up a little to get them.

    Don't forget about Miles Austin and Felix Jones. They are your speed. I would replace Crayton with a faster player. Bryd can replace him by 2010. I would get rid of Crayton anyway and play Sam Hurd.

    I'm all for shopping guys to Parcells for picks. Good idea.

    Safety is a problem. The third OLB is a problem, but the board dictates other needs. I don't want 3rd or 4th round projects at linebacker, inside or outside, when the offensive line or defensive line needs the blood.

    If I could get a 5th rounder for Crayton, he would be gone.



    41. I understand your thoughts. My only concern about Herman Johnson and dont misunderstand me, I was drooling to get him. But I keep hearing he balooned up to 388 in the senior bowl, thats way to big for the NFL, he needs to be about 335 or 345 but no more. IN fact i thought if he could get his weight down, he could really be quicker and faster too.

    On Wood, i went back and watched him play in the bowl games, he was knocking defensive linemen around and burying them, and he plays nasty and mean. I am not too fond of Gurode and his snapping, with his pre snaps. WE do need a good backup center.

    The reason being, i was saying what I did was due to Hermans weight, now if he can get down to 350 in the combine, i am fine with that and see how he moves.

    I cant think oh yeah jeff zimmerman i think, he was a highly og that we drafted and he got way up in weight, and lasted like one year in the pros or 2 years. I am weary of players that weigh 350 or more in the pros. As you know, players put on weight from 22 to 25,

    I do agree with you about the safeties, and linebackers and defensive ends that we need.

    I know someone that knows herman johnson personally, so i am going to ask him before the draft.

    And yes we do need an offensive guard too, most likely after next year Kosier is gone. And most likely Flozell wil be gone in a year or 2 too. So, we do need backup offensive linemen badly.

    Now, at the same time, remember what jerry jones said, we wont be big players in free agency this year, but stephen jones said that the cowboys are geared up for 2010, thats when i think the cowboys will be big time free agency players.

    Best I remember Adam our cap guru said we are fine till like 2013. So, I think 2010 will be the big push to get the players in from free agency and the draft to build for the next 2-4 years with the window the cowboys have

    As far as brace, i wouldnt mind him, or herman or wood, main thing i want a meat and potatoes kind of player that is mean and nasty and can play for 10 to 12 years.

    We neeed quality players in this draft, not quanity.


    And yes I think we can get a 3rd or 4th rounder for crayton. I think the cowboys if no team breaks the bank for burnett, the cowboys will resign burnett. Then draft another linebackre too. Then trade carpenter and mcquiistan or proctor to the dolphins, that should bring a 3rd or 4th rounder.

    Do those 2 things, and I think we can add a 3rd and 4th rounder to what we already have in draft picks. Then, the cowboys need to go out and sign either chris simms or luke mccown as backup QB.

    If the cowboys dont get brace in 2nd or 3rd, then go after the kid from stillman, i think he is a young version of leon lett and ratliff. Bigger than ratliff, and just alittle smaller than lett, but a player.

    As far was wrs, i would look at chery, the wr from louisiana.
  4. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    You have some good ideas, and we agree on the "meat and potatoes" part of this draft as far as the Cowboys are concerned. I think Crayton needs to go. I'll take what I can get. A higher pick would be great. Send Barbie with him. McQuistan, Free.... Take them all.

    I still wouldn't put a premium pick on a center, because Gurode is our best offensive linemen. He's one of the best centers in the NFL, and he's in his prime. I can live with his shotgun snaps, because he can dominate up front. I still remember him throwing Albert Haynesworth around like a rag doll.

    As far as Herm's weight goes, doesn't Big Leonard Davis plays at 366. Davis carries his weight well. Herm is two inches taller than Davis, I think. Herm may need to trim down some, but again, his body looks good. He carries that weight well. He moves well for a giant of a guard. You can trim him down some if you want to do so.

    The Cowboys offensive line is built on power. When we play the Eagles and Giants, it's power vs speed. Big Herm has plenty of power.

    He didn't check in the Senior Bowl looking like a slob. That was Anthony Parker. Again, I'm not reading where teams that like Herm are worried about his weight. The guy is a freak. I don't know if 350 is a realistic goal. Again, look at Big Leonard. He's 366 and shorter than Herm.

    Let us know what you hear about Big Herm. I will be following Herm and Loadholt closely. I think Duke Robinson is out of range. Thanks for posting good draft stuff.

    I stated earlier that I wouldn't "move up" for a safety. I would make a small move up but not drastic. Moving into the late third for Cook would work. He's better than what Dallas played with last season. Importantly, he's a SS, and he has FS skills, too.

    I think the Cowboys need some front-line starters and depth in this draft. There is room for 10 or 11 players on this team, imo.

    Ellis
    Henry
    Williams
    Carpenter

    These guys cost way too much money. If I'm averaging 10.1 wins per year and have a mode win of 9, I'm going to be demonstrate some fiscal responsibilty. Elllis needs to go, period. His attitude is very, very bad. I want to see what Spencer can do when he plays on third down and plays all the time. Williams and Henry just have big salaries that don't make sense anymore. Balll steps into the # 4 spot. Jenkins, imo, will replace Henry. A guy like Cook can take over at SS. I can replace Carpenter with an UFA. If the Cowboys can bring Roy Williams back at a lower cost and make it fit, I wouldn't complain. However, I still take Cook.

    Free
    McQuistan
    Proctor
    Berger
    Watkins
    Davis K. (played hard and helped us, but it's time to move on)
    Rodgers
    Brown ? One more shot in camp

    None of these guys should be back on Dallas' roster, imo. They need to churn the bottom. Free couldn't even play well against third stringers. I would trade him to a finesse team.
  5. DaBoys4Life

    DaBoys4Life Benched

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    Dware went to troy i wasnt aware that was part of the SEC. I'll give you Ratliff the rest are under acheiving bums. Burnett is injured every year James couldnt cover if his life depended on it and Spears is just average for the hype and draft position he's disapointend. All of which can be replaced none of them make a difference. Didn't see you put Witten i think my sig speaks how i feel about him. There's a lot of good players from the U at the next level I guess we should only draft people from the U.
  6. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    DaBoys4,

    My point was that Ware is from the Deep South. His hometown was Auburn. He didn't play in the SEC, but he's from the Deep South. Furthermore, if you want front seven players on defense, you will not find better ones anywhere. There are more front seven players on defense in the South, blue-chippers.

    Burnett is a good player. He is from California. Not everyone has to be a super-star. Good luck finding and getting a shot at someone who can cover players like Chris Cooley and Brian Westbrook like he can. I didn't see Burnett getting beat like a rented mule in coverage. In fact, he was jacking people up in Pittsburgh.

    Bradie James should have been in the Pro Bowl this year, and that is a fact. Look at his numbers and look at the film. He leads the team in tackles every season. James had 8 sacks this year. What other middle linebacker did that this year? Marcus Spears is a great role player and a high character guy. He gives you size and power and is a strong run defender. It's guys like him that make up the heart of your team. He's a meat and potatoes guy, a hard worker. Spears doesn't get the glory in this defense. 3-4 ends are not the stars, but you can't win without them being stout in the run game. Plus, when you let them walk, you have to replace them. Those are draft picks that could be spent on other needs that you have.

    I put the SEC guys in my mock, because I know them. Plus, if you look at where I placed them, they fit a need and a value for the Cowboys. I just didn't pick SEC players, just to pick them. Those SEC players are very good prospects. The SEC has a ton of players in the NFL. Big Herm, Cook, Watkins, and Bryd would upgrade the Cowboys, big time. Cook is exactly what the Cowboys need at SS. The fullback from LSU is the top rated guy. Herm Johnson is the 2nd rated guard. I like the WR from Oklahoma and Georgia, but I want the Cowboys to address the offensive line, especially offensive tackle and LG, so I put Byrd in a later round. The guy can fly. I've seen him play. He's tough. He is being listed as 6-7 rounder, but that will change when he works out and runs.

    Again:

    Bradie James LSU
    Kevin Burnett Tennessee
    Jay Ratliff Auburn
    DeMarcus Ware Troy State (Deep South player; in an SEC state)
    Jason Witten Tennessee
    Felix Jones Arkansas
    Marcus Spears LSU

    Three out of four of the Cowboys best players on defense played in the SEC or played in the the South. Terence Newman is from Kansas State.

    When USC is playing Ohio State, I'm watching Auburn and Mississippi State when the final score is going to be 3-2. I know the SEC, and I'm an SEC guy. I like their players.
  7. DaBoys4Life

    DaBoys4Life Benched

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    Can you please stop listing Dware. He's not from the SEC he didn't play in the SEC he doesn't go towards your argument at all. You sound as silly as the guy who said Texas is the best football culture or some garbage like that. The SeC is a good conference however, Drafting all guys from the SEC isn't going to get the job done. I'm a huge Miami fan and you can see the players that have produce in the League from that school does that mean we draft everyone from Miami ? There's talent all over the nation and you shouldn't limit yourself to the SEC because just like they're good players from the SEC they're also bad players. Spears is only average and doesn't even play 3 downs for us. James couldn't cover anyone. Burnett can't stay healthy if his life depended on it. Felix showed some flashes but got injured if you can't stay healthy you're useless lets see what he does this year.
  8. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    Did I ever say that there isn't talent all over the nation. Has it ever dawned on you that one reason the SEC has the best defenses in the country is because the best front 7 players, on defense, are waiting to be plucked up in their backyard? You like the Canes. You should know that.

    The SEC isn't "a good conference". It's the best conference, period. How many national championships have they won in a row? 3 The SEC East is toughest division in football.

    Ware isn't from the SEC. He's from AUBURN, Alabama, and that was my point. He's from the Deep South. Whether you like it or not, some of the Cowboys best players are from the SEC or the Deep South.



    Felix Jones "showed some flashes". lol Felix was dominating and not getting enough touches. Felix Jones is one of the best players the Cowboys have right now. The sky is the limit for him if he can get healthy. Only a Cowboy player would suffer such a fluke toe injury. I don't trust the trainers.

    Spears had 17 quarterback pressures last season and didn't play on 4th down.

    You don't llike Bradie James, of course you focus on the weaker part of his game. His coverage has improved. 8 sacks!

    Did I ever say that "bad" players don't come out of the SEC?

    It's my mock. If I want to put 11 SEC players in it and share it, I will.


    Herm Johnson 2nd rated guard (Dallas needs a guard. Value fits.)

    Emanuel Cook one of the top SSs (Dallas needs a SS. Value fits.)

    Jason Watkins one of the best OT prospects in the mid-rounds

    Demetrius Byrd a huge sleeper

    The value on all those SEC players matches up with Dallas' needs at those draft slots.

    Am I suppossed to ingnore a good player's value, because "I can't get too many SEC players in one draft"? Plus, I've seen them all play multiple times.

    LOL
  9. DaBoys4Life

    DaBoys4Life Benched

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    I think if you ride the SEC bandwagon to hard your going to break it....Citing Dware as an SEC/guy from the Deep south makes your post as silly as the guy that came on the board a month ago and said everything was better in Texas. You lose all credibility and it invalidates any point that you try to make so continue on SEC man.
  10. Biggems

    Biggems White and Nerdy

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    Wood played G in the senior bowl and was awesome. He played a great game, and if I am not mistaken, came out of the week and the game as the top OL of the week and game. Like I said, he can play all 3 interior positions, even though he is a Center. Also, with him being an intelligent lineman, it goes a long way to being able to pick up blitzes, evaluate mismatches, and audible.

    I also see nothing wrong with bringing in a guy like Wood to push Gurode. Just cause Andre is the starter right now, doesn't mean he can't be benched. If his backup does a better job snapping the ball promptly and properly, as well as being able to QB the OL, then I can see us using the best option of the two. All I know, is Gurode played great when he had a fire lit up under his butt. I think drafting Wood, would light that fire and keep it lit for quite a while.
  11. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    Biggems,

    Wood is a good prospect, and you did a nice job of making your case for him. I respect you view, and you made your point without attacking me. You would push Gurode, and I woud push the offensive tackles and plug LG with Herm Johnson.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/nfp-mock-draft-second-round/


    Here is a round 2 mock with Wood going at number 64.
  12. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    DaBoys4LIfe,

    Fine. I wish you could make your point without attacking me.

    However, I'm a big boy and can take it.


    For the last time, I never said Ware played in the SEC. Yes, I'll take my chances with SEC players all day long. Write Charlie Weis and ask him where the hot-bed of defensive talent is in the country, see what he says. Where is the speed and athletic ability in the secondary? Go ask the coaches in the Big Ten. I can't wait until Eric Berry is a top 5 pick. He's from Georgia.

    Something else...

    I looked at your mock, and you know what, I didn't like it. Did I go after you the way you have gone after me?

    I kept my mouth shut.
  13. Verdict

    Verdict Well-Known Member

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    Loadholt is projected by most of the talking heads to be a low first/high second rounder. If he is there in the 4th we should jump on him like a big dog on a toy poodle. LOL
  14. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    I really like him for RT. You can't teach 6-8, 343. Plus, he played for Oklahoma.

    The ratings on him are erratic.

    The National Football Post rates him as 4th rounder.

    NFLDraftScout projects him in the 2nd-3rd round.

    That has to give us some hope of landing him.

    Getting a dominant run blocker like Herm Johnson or "The House" and Phil Loadholt in one draft would be worthy of backflips. Johnson's pass protection and balance got better from his junior year to his senior year.
  15. DaBoys4Life

    DaBoys4Life Benched

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    Yeah you never said he played in the SEC but you claiming that because he's from the deep south/Auburn is the reason why he's so good. Which basically destroys any point you try to make. If you don't like my mock I'd rather you tell me and tell me what you dislike about it so that we can have a discussion about it. I wasn't trying to attack you just trying to point out fundamental flaw with the SEC love. Just out of curiosity when was the last time from one from the SEC won defensive player of the year? Since that's where all the talent and such is coming from.

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