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Hill: Monte Kiffen won't force cover 2 scheme...interviewed w/JG and JG today

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by WoodysGirl, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    I don't agree with that. I think he was a force this year. Not previous years, minus that 6 or 7 game stretch in 2009. For the most part he's been a solid run player and pretty much non-existent as a pass rusher. We've had an extremely one sided pass rush in our 3-4 with Spencer. Another reason why we never flourished with it.

    If he had more years on his current deal I wouldn't think of letting him go. But we have to make a decision on him this offseason and I think he's fool's gold. Another one of those bad contracts you look back on two years later and regret.
  2. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he is fools gold. I would not sign him long term if I was moving to a 4-3. I might keep him another year with the tag and try to move him around. He has been one of the top 3 players at what he does for years. But if somebody else is supposed to be setting the edge I don't know how good he will be.
  3. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Well, we don't have to agree on his past play. I'm a huge fan of Spencer's, but I'm on the fence about renewing him at a huge premium. I just think it was stupid to get into this situation in the first place. It's basically the Ratliff situation from a few years back.
  4. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Huh? We signed Ratliff early to a very team friendly deal. He has been a tremendous bargain for us.

    Spencer was solid but never popped until this year.

    Dallas does lots of dumb things but neither guy was handled improperly up to this point.


    Paying TNew a gazillion dollars was a bad move.
    Paying Doug Free now appears to have been a bad move.

    But Rat has been a bargain and Spencer has as well. Even this year's high cap cost was proven quite well-earned.
  5. perrykemp

    perrykemp Well-Known Member

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    Huh? He just signed his contract extension late last year and barely contributed this season. How was he a bargain?
  6. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    Just to follow up on this..from Lacewell

    Not to beat a dead horse but many of us had safety concerns....this is what Lacewell says

    http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowb...oes-dallas-personnel-fit-monte-kiffins-scheme

  7. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I don't think anyone should be discounting the need for safeties on this D at this point, some just seem to have it further down their list of needs cause they have other pet positions.

    This whole thing just seems like a Jerry sell job to me for change, and we just have too many needs to fill in one offseason now. Needless to say, I'm not happy with his 'changes'.
  8. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    No one is saying the S spot couldn't use an upgrade. People are saying that the S isn't an achillies heal that will singlehandedly sink a defense, as repeatedly shown in the NFL, and that he safety spot could use an upgrade regardless of what scheme or coach is in Dallas.

    Sensy and Barry Church aren't magically going to become great players if we just stuck with the status quo and sat on our hands like you apparently wanted.
  9. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if your point. They can sink the defense...this type if defense. There is a reason why Lacewell...not me...is saying we need safeties and that it's a big hole. My point is we need safeties, not sitting on hands. It's what I've said all day.
  10. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    I think this and not knowing how he'll do in the 4-3 are the reasons you franchise him again. 2012 might have been the breakthrough for Spencer, where he found the consistent pass rush to go with his run-stopping skills. It also might just be an anomaly and he won't be able to get off blocks consistently as a 4-3 end. I'd like to see which of those is the case, but not at the expense of a long-term deal.
  11. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    We would have needed safeties regardless of what system we used. If we're going up and down the defense evaluating the personnel under the 3-4, Lacewell would have said "We need safeties". There is absolutely nothing unique about this defense when it comes to safeties. Any defense wants good safeties. Chicago's safeties are garbage, and they finished 3rd in the NFL in scoring defense. No NFL GM is saying that Chris Conte is more important to the Bears defense than Henry Melton, Julius Peppers, Lance Briggs, Brian Urlacher. That's utterly laughable.
  12. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    I don't think its a matter of "sinking" the defense.

    But its simply easier to hide a pair of subpar safeties in an aggressive, blitzing 3-4 than it is on a more passive, bend don't break Cover 2.

    Yes, we needed these safeties to be better to be an impact 3-4 defense. But is even more important that we have better safeties in Kiffin's defense. And yes, we get it that Chicago's safeties are nothing special, but Sensy and Church are a below average pair by any standard.

    Again, its not a deal breaker. But its one more stress point to changing the defense.
  13. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    Disagree. It's easier to hide safeties in a cover 2 zone where the each safety is just responsible for one quadrant of the field as opposed to leaving them out to cover man on man against TEs, like we've been asking. There are also smaller, faster, more athletic LBs dropping back in coverage to help protect the seams, as opposed to lumbering 250+ lbs. Bradie James, Ted Johnsons and Larry Footes.

    People just want to deduce that you absolutely have to have a great safety to play Monte Kiffin's scheme, because he had one in John Lynch. This is like saying the only way Dick LeBeau could run a good defense is if you have a Troy Paulamalu. Yes, any defense would be better with a Troy Paulumaulu. This is is also ignoring that John Lynch was basically a 4th LB and about the exact polar opposite of this free raging ballhawk everyone says we need.
  14. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    I agree to an extent. The zone is vulnerable deep because of the safety coverage, but the idea is to get to the quarterback before the receivers can get past the corners and linebackers and work over the safeties. The shorter to midrange stuff gets corner and linebacker support.
  15. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    And I disagree. If my primary focus is smacking the heck out of the opposing QB, then what I want is press CBs. My safeties are important, but if my front 7 is working the way I expect the ball is coming out quickly or not at all.

    In a Cover 2 the emphasis is not QB disruption. Its limiting big plays and dislodging receivers from the ball. That's what safeties are for.
  16. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    I really think you don't know the Cover-2. You've been trying to bust my balls on this all day but Lovie and everyone running this has stressed safety play and how important it is....even compared to other defense. You are leavin 2 guys on an island covering halves. Every Bears fan complained after Brown's time ended and they used 2 picks to get others in here. You are not paying attention if you think their safeties are garbage. Every person up here knows their importance. If you don't think Brown was one of their most important players you have no clue. They are more playmakers in this defense.

    http://www.chicagobears.com/news/ar...safeties/8e2a7d62-dd12-4a46-9a97-610c050ee7a2

    If you don't know the team, don't talk about it. Everyone who talks Cover-2 and Tampa-2 knows how important the safeties are. You can cover for them in other defenses....which we have tried to do for years.

    Dungy was quoted as saying a safety is one of the top 3 guys in the D

    http://www.cowboyszone.com/forums/dallascowboys.php?t=251291
  17. gimmesix

    gimmesix Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

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    To an extent, but it's also meant to make the QBs hold the ball longer (taking away the short to intermediate routes), giving the pressure a chance to get there. If the pressure doesn't get there, then the receivers can work over the safeties downfield.

    That's one reason you want the corners to press, to keep the receivers from getting on the safeties too fast. Ideally, pressure then forces the quarterback to have to try to fit the ball in where the corners or linebackers can jump in front or the safeties can come up and dislodge it.
  18. twentytwo

    twentytwo Member

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    Can we get a post from couchscout? I'd love to hear him weigh in on how our current roster would perform in the Tampa 2.

    I'm assuming Kiffin will adjust to play to the strengths of our team, though.
  19. Zordon

    Zordon Well-Known Member

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    What do you think the alternative was? Should we have locked him up 2-3 yrs ago?
  20. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Yep. He's been a difference maker on defense since he's been here. Now we're looking at a huge premium, and we've got Romo and Dez and Lee coming up behind him.

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