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How Often Did They Get to the QB?

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by ABQCOWBOY, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Pressures are considered hurries + knockdowns to give the total effect on the QB. The first stat in the chart is labeled “PPS” and that stands for Pressures Per Snap. What that tells us is how many snaps it takes for each player to get to the QB. That is, a lower number means that the pass rusher affects the QB more often and is more efficient. PPS combines sacks and pressures, but isn’t weighted towards one or the other.

    Mingo Werner Jordan Carradine Okafor
    PPS 9.63 8.50 10.64 7.31 6.49
    Pressures 28 31 17 31 29
    Sacks 4.5 13 5 11 13.5
    Snaps 313 374 234 307 276



    The rest of the article can be read here. I don't know how the stats were put together but the article itself is pretty interesting.


    http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/metrics-breakdown-top-pass-rushers-tier-1
  2. RS12

    RS12 Well-Known Member

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    The thing we dont know about Werner and Carridine is which one made the others life easier. I'd rather have the one that made the others life easier. Werner played the strong side but not sure he fits here.
  3. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    It's interesting. In the article, there is another table called "How Much Help Did They Get?". In that table, again, it says indicates that Okafor graded out best in this area as well. To be honest, I would not be upset if we ended up with either Werner, Carridine or Okafor. No way do I want Mingo. On a side note, Jenkins is a guy that we should really be looking at. He is the guy who was injured prior to Carridine taking over at FSU. He did pretty much nothing last year as he was coming off injury late, But in his Jr. year, he had 8 sacks and 12 TFL. In his Soph. year, he had 13.5 Sacks and 21.5 TFL.

    He is a guy that could be a real value later in the draft.
  4. RS12

    RS12 Well-Known Member

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    Dont know if Jenkins was still injured (lisfranc ?) but he had an awful pro day work out. Ran in 4.9s at 255 or 260 and the scouts werent impressed. Maybe a mid to late round bargain if he is still rounding into shape, IDK.
  5. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    He is still injured. It's usually about 3 months before you can get back on your feet but that injury, even after surgery, takes time. Some guys never come back from it but typically, I think those are athletes who sustain the injury later in their athletic careers. I would not expect him to be fully healed from that injury until about a year later. That would probably be around the start of the season. Prior to that injury, he was the best pass rusher the Noles had on that team.
  6. RS12

    RS12 Well-Known Member

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    BTW Mingo and Jordan will be long gone at 18 IMO. I definitely expect Okafor to be there at 47 and maybe 80.
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe 47 but no way he is there at 80. It's becoming a stretch that he is there at 47 now. Lots of teams are interested in him apparently.

    As for Mingo, I hope you are right. He's not the player I would like us to draft. Jordan I would love but he's a top 10 guy IMO.
  8. RS12

    RS12 Well-Known Member

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    Werner's 13 sacks came without help of blitz
    The Sideline View's Lance Zierlein notes that all of FSU DE Bjoern Werner's 13 sacks took place without the help of a blitz.
    Werner "beat his man on those 13 sacks," Zierlein writes while listing the edge rusher as the second best defensive end. "I thought Bjoern Werner could transition to 3-4 OLB, and maybe he can, but to my eyes he looks best suited to the 4-3. Werner looked a little more explosive off the edge last year, but I still think he has the athleticism to be a legitimate enough edge rusher that he will open up some inside moves by tackles over-setting to the outside."
    Source: The Sideline View Mar 29 - 2:16 PM
  9. Muhast

    Muhast Newo

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    Where is Jarvis Jones on that list?
  10. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    I remember some saying the same thing when the draft came that had both Barbie and AJ Hawk in it. Hawk was the guy who everyone said made it all happen.

    But I notice in the Pros Hawk has been good to very good but that is all. Maybe the combination of Hawk and Barbie together was what worked.
  11. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a significant risk when evaluating game tape of a player playing with dominant players in the same unit. So if you're playing beside two dominant DLs who command double teams regularly and flush QBs out of the pocket quickly then it can inflate your sacks compared to a guy who plays with JAGs and has to beat double teams and doesn't get any garbage sacks from pressures created by his teammates.

    I think this is why it has been hard to identify great players from LSU and Alabama in the early parts of the draft lately. They play with so many other great talents that it is hard to get a read on how good they are as individuals from the game tape.

    I really think you have to play close attention to the numbers such players put up at the Combine. Do they compare well to elite players at the position in the pros? If they do not I'd be wary of choosing them. For example, consider Julio Jones who blew up the Combine and has been a great pro. OTOH, consider Glenn Dorsey who was an average athlete and has been an average pro.
  12. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Yep. And the obvious corollary is that the same thing happens once the players become pros. Standout players playing next to other standout players end up looking better. That's the way rosters snowball once you get to that talent tipping point. Having consistency and talent clustered on a roster makes your drafting and coaching look a lot better. The same way that covering up for marginal talent at, say, S, or on the interior OL can make good or decent players look pretty weak.
  13. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    Good thread. We need another pass rusher but I'd rather get a DT this draft along with OL, S, CB, RB, TE. That doesn't leave much room. I'll take one if he falls though.
  14. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    I agree Jobber.

    Outside of Dion Jordan, none of the edge rushers look all that great this year. They either suffer from lack of production or lack of strength/speed/agility. Ansah is a huge gamble due to lack of productivity and lack of polish and he is being projected to the top 10 now. After that it is just a bunch of question marks in players like Werner, Carradine, Moore and Hunt.

    The DTs are both better in upper end quality as well as depth. Even though our needs are probably greater depthwise at DE I think the draft lines up better for us to get a quality DT in the first or second round. There is also the issue that both of our starters are 31 years old and one is in serious decline and the other is only signed for one more year. The depth we have at DT have only been rotational players thus far so I'm not sure if they are going to be quality starters in the end. If the top 3 DTs are gone (Star, Richardson, Floyd), I don't think there is much difference in quality in the next several so I'd favor a trade down to the bottom of the first unless Cooper is available. In the trade down I hope to get enough to stay in the first round and pick up a 3rd rounder. I might even then further consider swapping our first for a high second this year and a first next year.

    With an extra pick in the first 3 rounds I hope we'd get an OL, DL, Safety and one BPA (preferably a DL or OL). I'd hope we could quickly convert 3 of them into starters before the year ends.

    If we luck out with a top pick next year I hope we get an impact player, take a great QB or leverage that pick into a huge package of picks to build out the roster for a shot at the SB with Romo at the helm. I know that move may seem counterintuitive to some but I believe the way you win is by building a quality roster with lots of youth and not by acquiring that one last piece to put you over the top. I think Jerry too often has gotten distracted by a shiny object in FA as the solution to our ills and given up way too much on his infatuation (see Joey Galloway and Roy Williams). It is really important that we embrace this vision because you can't win by accumulating and re-signing stars because of the cap but you can keep trying to trade non-core vets for future picks and you can keep trading current year picks for more picks of higher quality the next year.
  15. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    According to Broaddus on his draft show a week ago. He doesn't see why people are high on Werner. Said he isn't a tight edge rusher that you look for, was easy to block and got his sacks when he wasn't blocked. He said Carradine was the guy that had the tight edge rush.
  16. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    Nice post. You're right about the positions. Deep at G, T, DT, WR, S. Moore, Okafor, Taylor and Goodman interest me but I doubt we see Moore and I'm not sure about Okafor at 18. Having said that I can now guarantee you he will be a perennial All Pro. :) I'd take Taylor in the 4th or 5th and maybe Goodman 5-6. There are OTs that may be at 5 I'd rather have though plus PR/WRs as well.

    If Richardson falls to 18 then I'm looking hard. Depends on who else is available. I'd probably take him over Cooper. If Lane Johnson is there at 18 then Callahan and Marinelli/Kiffin can fight over them. I'm taking Johnson there but he won't be there so that leaves Watson as I'm not sold on Fluker. If Watson is available they can fight it out but I'm taking Richardson although I'm crying all the way to the podium about not getting Watson.
  17. CopenhagenCowboy

    CopenhagenCowboy Active Member

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    Totally agree.

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