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I need some honest opinions on Gun Control

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Temo, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. Temo

    Temo Active Member

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    Ok, so I've never owned a gun, shot a gun, or even held a gun. I did once had one pointed at me during a convenience store robbery, but that's the closest I've ever come to one. That said, I don't fear guns, despise them, or think they're the cause of all the violence in the world.

    So anyway, I was watching 60 minutes last night and they re-ran this story they did last season about the Assault Weapons ban that was put into place under Clinton, and how it was allowed to expire during the Bush administration. And that people are afraid that Obama will reinstate it, but that a lot of the Democrats who have now come into the house and senate are actually anti-gun control democrats.

    Now, the story on 60 minutes by and large focused on how the ban only dealt with "dangerous arms" like AK-47s and such that are used "only with intent to cause violence, by and large by dangerous criminals and drug gangs". That MAY be the case, but it's not like they provided any definitive proof of such.

    I've grown up in the northeast, in a culture that doesn't generally like guns. New York/New Jersey gun laws are very, very strict (as Plaxico Burress is finding out now). But I do understand that there is a significant portion of the country that likes its guns, and considers them to be a vital part of the basic freedoms guarenteed by the constitution.

    Finally, here's my question, from a guy who's legitamately ambivalent towards the whole issue:

    - Are you for/against the assault weapons ban? And why?
    - Does "assault weapons" really mean only stuff used by organized crime/drug cartels, like the 60 minutes piece suggests?
    - If you have an "assault weapon", what do you use it for?
  2. Jon88

    Jon88 Benched

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    I'm pro-gun, but I don't know why anyone would need an assault weapon.
  3. Bob Sacamano

    Bob Sacamano Benched

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    same as me, and I understand that there are gun enthusiasts out there that just like the thought of possessing one

    but on the otherhand, there are people who get a hold of one and shoot up people

    I'd rather be safe than sorry and ban anyone from owning an assault weapon
  4. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    No one needs an assault weapon, I think most people that want them want it for the novelty of having one. You don't get an AK because you want it to defend yourself or your property, you get it because it's an AK.

    Most often when I've discussed this with people that are for not banning them, their excuse is that it'll start with assault rifles then move on to shotguns, and so on.

    I'm neither here or there on gun laws, I believe in gun control because too many people are stupid and when you live in a big city like I do here in NYC, you are in close proximity to those idiots. If I lived out in the country, I wouldn't care what anyone owns.
  5. DIAF

    DIAF DivaLover159

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    Same. I own a .32 revolver that was given to my mother by my gun-nut uncle after my father died for "protection" that is now in my possession as my mom did not want it in the house (never been fired) and an old Savage 12-gauge that belonged to my grandfather. I don't understand why people want or need assault weapons, unless you were a collector of some sort (go collect something else) or just plain militia-crazy.
  6. Temo

    Temo Active Member

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    I have many of the same opinions as the opinions expressed so far, but at the same time I have to believe that there's something to the other side if the politics over this are so divisive. I mean, the 60 minutes angle was "the only people who don't want this ban are those evil NRA people who are just out for a buck."

    Maybe that's the case, but it seems awfully cynical to suggest that this is what drives our political process.

    Is there something in the ban that extends the prohibition to other weapons, like shotguns? Is anyone well informed enough to provide the evidence that there's more to this than "evil NRA people trying to sell guns to drug lords"?
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I am for an assault weapon ban.

    No, it doesn't only mean stuff used by organized crime. Typically, the assault weapons bill has much more added into it then just typical assault weapons.

    I do not own an assault weapon but I know how to get hold of them very easily. That's kinda the problem with Assault Weapons. There are so many of them out there that laws prohibiting them only really effect law abiding citizens. If you want one, you can get one. It's pretty much that easy.
  8. bbgun

    bbgun Benched

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    [youtube]CLjNJI54GMM[/youtube]
  9. DIAF

    DIAF DivaLover159

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    The assault weapons ban defines "assault weapons" as weapons having a few of characteristics out of a list that includes Pistol Grips, forward grips, detachable magazines, magazines over x number of rounds in capacity, threaded barrells for silencers or flash suppressors, mounts for rifle grenades, and some others i'm sure I am leaving out.
  10. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    OK here is my take.
    60 Minutes is just like any other MSM today. Agenda driven and biased. You will get more info and honest opinion and facts here then they will give you.

    Take out gang activity= and they usually have automatic weapons anyway which are NOT ASSAULT WEAPONS since fully automatic weapons are already federally regulated= and just how many incidents a year involve assault weapons. When you try and pin downthe Brady Bunch and the rest of the anti gun fanatics you will find VERY LITTLE data. You know why? Because assault weapons are used in very few crimes. Always has been that way. Now there have been a few highly publicised ones of course- but the actual number and victims have been very low. Just about every big shooting has involved HANDGUNS.
    So for one an assault ban would have very little effect- as the last one showed. China and other countries make them and they get here just like drugs do. And usually legally anway. Laws like this ONLY penalize the law abiding.
    stats have shown that strong anti gun laws have very little effect on gun crime. Critics claim that only if they were nationwide would they work but you ask for any proof and once again they come up short.
    The Supreme Court has come right out and said that the right to own a weapon is a individual right. So that settled that old arguement (it was an example of the anti gun hypocrisy that they could claim that all the other rights outlined inthe BILL of Rights were individual except THAT ONE.)
    So we have a RIGHT to own a weapon. Now you get down to what kind of weapon. At the time it was written the Second Amendment prettymuch meant the common weapon of the time which was a smoothbore musket.
    Which was also the STANDARD MILITARY weapon of that time.
    So by that definition you should be able to own the STANDARD MILITARY WEAPON of this time. Something like the M4 (latest version of the M16 with semi automatic fire or 3 rd burst capeability.)
    Which taking away the automatic part- would make it an assault weapon.
  11. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    I seem to share the general sentiments here, no problem with guns, see no reason for anyone to have assault weapons. I'm betting it's not legal for a vehicle enthusiast to have a tank, so why should we expect anyone to have a serious artillery weapon?
  12. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    I have two SKS's that I have had for about 15 years. Once or twice a year I go out to the countryside and fire them off and have a lot of fun shooting at cans and targets and the like.
    Why should anyone have a Porsche that goes 150 MP when the speed limit in many places is 60 or 65?
  13. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    I'm still not quite sure how banning assault weapons penalizes the law-abiding.
  14. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    You say they cannot have it. They obey the law. So it does penalize the law abiding if they want one and YOU say they cannot have it.
  15. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm actually talking about the Assault Rifle Bill itself. The Liberals always seem to add in other things. They try to get as much as they possibly can on this. Everybody basically agrees that Assault Rifles should be banned. Because of this, the left will try and get more in the bill to try and get it passed. That usually presents a problem.

    The AWB was passed under Clinton and lasted till about 2004 I think. The problem is that the law prohibited semi auto and not fully auto. I see no good reason to prohibit Semi as that is not what is at issue IMO. The law, while in place, also did not lesson the violence. All it did was create a more lucrative market for the weapons.
  16. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    As I have pointed out FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS are federally regulated and have been for a long time.
  17. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    That's not really what I think when I think of punishment, but alright. I want a pet Tiger but the city says I can't keep one, so I got two dogs instead.
  18. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it the only ones who will be banned are people who abide by the law to begin with. Those who want them will be able to get them. One other issue is what the Government considers an assult weapon
  19. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    I'd say enough crimes are committed by otherwise law abiding citizens that suddenly snap, that it's worth banning but I agree that the definition of assault weapon should be made clear.

    From the list DIAF posted, I don't have a problem with anything listed. You don't need a silencer and you probably don't need a scope or grenade launcher to protect yourself.
  20. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    True, but the purpose is to make it a major offense to own one. Laws are never intended to really make bad disappear, they're intended to legitimately punish the offender. Laws against murder do not trump human nature, but by having the law, severe punishment is the proper response.

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