If It Is Just Results You Want, How Do You Propose to Get Them?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Hostile, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    Why when they haven't for 16 years then?

    In 1996, was this a dumb team? The defending Super Bowl Champions that had 4 and possibly 5 Hall of Famers on it? Were the 1998 and 1999 teams that were handicapped by injuries to Novacek, Moose, and Haley. Not to mention Michael Irvin.

    You see, that is the contention on this site. We have dumb players, led by dumb coaches, hired by a dumb GM. Nothing else factors in.

    The 2003 team that over achieved under Parcells is given no mitigating thought.

    A freak bobble in 2006 is given no mitigating thought. In case someone says it was not a freak bobble, how many has he bobbled in his career?

    In 2007, the fact we played with 2 hobbled WRs and the Giants adjusted and blitzed us to kingdom come is given no mitigation.

    2009 is given no mitigating thought due to the lopsided score. Forget the fact the Vikings played out of their minds good.

    If it hasn't happened in 16 years, why should I believe it will happen by 2014 if mitigating circumstances conspire to keep us title game free?

    The part that galls me is the calling of the triplets, Moose, Woody, Haley, Novacek, et al "dumb" players.
  2. birdwells1

    birdwells1 Well-Known Member

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    Just a correction, the Saints went to the NFC Championship Game against the Bears in 2007.
  3. Avenger

    Avenger Member

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    This is great.
  4. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    I see by this thread it's still June.
  5. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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  6. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    Surprised you can see anything at all. Yes, it is still June, and I never said differently.
  7. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to be a smart ace, but what years did you love HH? Just curious.
  8. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    Plenty? I'm anxious to see that list.
  9. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    The results are intertwined with the process. If the results don't improve, then what's to make us believe that the process is working? Or maybe the process is in the right direction, but Garrett isn't the guy to execute it?

    I'm just tired of not learning from our mistakes and moving on. That shows me that the process is working.

    Here's just a few things off the top of my head I will rattle off that will probably hamstring us in 2012. Why? Because it happens every year:

    - We'll go into Philly and be completely overwhelmed by their pass rush, particularly on stunts and blitzes up the gut.

    - We'll have 1-3 games this year where we neglect the run.

    - Eli will continue to draw Ware offsides, giving him crucial free plays.

    - Eli will confuse the secondary and Andy Reid will confuse the secondary with motion.

    - We'll have 1-3 games where the team looks utterly undisciplined with players not knowing plays and dumb penalties.

    - We'll throw away leads in games where we dominated every key stat.

    I think for the most part, we must go better than 8-8 and we need to see steps to improve these areas because we did not see it last year.

  10. ShiningStar

    ShiningStar Well-Known Member

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    hif first tenure with teh organization.
  11. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye.

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    My barometer is the Detroit Lions.

    At the end of the 2008 season, they were an 0-16 team bereft of any talent and seeped in a culture of losing. Three years later, they were a 10 win playoff team.

    If the Lions can go from being one of the worst teams in league history to a playoff team, the Cowboys should be able to show significant progress by the end of next season. A playoff berth is a reasonable expectation.
  12. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    We're just talking in circles Rich. You're telling me results are needed. I'm telling you I agree but you have to build to achieve results. To which you reply results are needed. I've acknowledged that multiple times in the OP and just don't want to go around and a round on results.

    I honestly have no desire to even read the rest. My apologies.
  13. rcaldw

    rcaldw Well-Known Member

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    I'll throw gas on the fire.

    I would give him a 10 year contract right now and close the door on any kind of speculation should we struggle this year. That is how sold I am on the idea that Garrett will be a long term winner. I really believe that.

    On the Landry comparison... I can see some similarities, but where I differ is on the character side of things. Garrett's commitment to character seems to be along the lines of just being a stand up person. A lot of psychological stuff, and positive thinking. Landry's character stemmed from Christianity. Football was important to Landry, but never the most important thing in his life.

    Landry's motivation is not necessary to winning (thus my comment on the 10 year contract.) Jimmy Johnson, certainly, was not like Landry.

    Just for my taste, I loved everything about Landry, especially what motivated his character. I don't know that we will ever see another quite like him.
  14. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

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    We certainly have and about the only conclusion is that you are intentionally obtuse.
  15. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    I see, once again, you've added nothing of value to the discussion.

    Feel free to go ahead and show me anything other than pure speculation about Rooney forcing Arians out.
  16. birdwells1

    birdwells1 Well-Known Member

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    :laugh2: A 10 year contract, then NE ought to give Bellichek a 50 year contract.
  17. preacher238

    preacher238 Member

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    I started reading this thread, and predicting to myself who would say what!


    And boy was I right...


    But Hos, I do agree with you...we are taking steps in the right direction. THIS is the way to build a winner. You first have to BUILD with the right kind of guys!!! That's what the organization is in the process of doing. Someone already made the point of how much dead weight we have gotten rid of since the end of 2010.....

    And I do agree with those who say SHOW ME RESULTS. But to get those results you still have to BUILD. I think that's what we are doing here. Yes, I am on the JG bandwagon....Yes, I am a homer, but a homer with expectations of how I would like this team to perform. I see JG making those expectations a reality...first with a playoff appearance in 2012, and the big show in 2013. Yeah, I said it...SB in 2013.
  18. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    At least you qualified your expectations.

    When people refuse to do that or talk about handing someone a 10-year contract, it speaks to an irrational behavior of seeing what they want to see rather than what truly is.

    Many people have watched this process and Garrett's systematic rise within coaching and specifically the Cowboys organization. And like Jerry Jones himself, they envision Garrett as the next Tom Landry.

    They want this to work - even if it doesn't.

    They refuse to put qualifiers on his performance and refuse to specifically state any solid expectations.

    And that 'logic' is every bit as faulty as anyone wanting to fire him already - two sides of the 'crazy coin'.

    There can be patience for the process, but there are also expected results. You can't have one without the other, no matter how much people like him and want it to be otherwise.
  19. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    I'm sure Jerry & Co. have expectations.

    Off the cuff, I'd say they expect a better record than last season, and something like a 6-10 clusterfudge would put serious pressure on management to consider a change.
  20. preacher238

    preacher238 Member

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    I agree....there HAS to be improvement this year. I really really believe that it will be better this year. The thing that some folks keep missing is that this year is REALLY his first year with a complete off-season to work with. AS A HEAD COACH! I think he learned a lot of things in the past year, good and bad. I still do have questions about his play calling and game management. I will not lie...he has GOT to improve those 2 areas. But I DO like the attitude he is beginning to instill around Valley Ranch. When he was the OC, he did not have the say that he does as the HC. Now he can instill HIS work ethic and HIS attitude around VR.

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