if payton and zimmer go

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by iceberg, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. iceberg

    iceberg it's business, this emotional game Zone Supporter

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    and parcells only wants to be here 1 more year - how much control do you give him over "long term" decisions?

    many of us didn't like the move to the 3-4 for this very reason. but if they do both go does bill just take OC on to save that spot for when he leaves and we hire a DC and be done with it?

    or would we let bill hire someone we may not want when he goes?

    there's a reason the top 2 positions outside HC are leaving. ignore it at your leisure. but if you were a coach on a team you honestly felt had a good shot to be a contender and win a superbowl, would you just up and leave?
  2. Eddie

    Eddie Well-Known Member

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    We're not in a bad spot if we decide to return to the 4-3. We'd actually be in better shape.

    Canty, Spears, and Ware make formidable DE's. Ratliff and Fergie make a decent DT combo. This is also assuming Ellis and Glover are gone ... if not, we have some great depth along the DL.

    For LB's ... Burnett and James would be good starters, and we'd only need to find one more OLB.

    So there ... the 4-3 would be easier to fill than the 3-4. With our 3-4, we still need 2 more LB's ... in place of Ellis and Glover.

    If we move back to the 4-3, I'd be a happy camper. :)
  3. lspain1

    lspain1 Active Member

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    I think the answer to that question has to be....Yes. There are a large number of openings this year and a real opportunity for some new people. Even if you want to go to a super bowl, you have to take your shot at the brass ring when you get it.
  4. Zman5

    Zman5 Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry. We got Shanle. That's all we need. 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, 2-5. It doesn't matter. Shanle can do it all.
  5. iceberg

    iceberg it's business, this emotional game Zone Supporter

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    i'm torn to a point on this one and can really see either side. the fact that there are so many openings this year hurts trying to keep talent also. i'm really more concerned with how much control do we give a coach who won't committ.
  6. Eddie

    Eddie Well-Known Member

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    I think continuity is over-rated, and basically, non-existent in the NFL these days. Even if the HC remains, assistant coaches come and go almost on a yearly basis.

    So to have an OC for 2-3 year is about as much continuity as you can expect. If he's a good OC, he'd headed for bigger things. If the OC stinks, he's gone.

    Either way, the OC and DC's are replaced almost yearly.

    So we were "lucky" to have Payton and Zimmer for 3 years. If they leave, then we do as all other teams do ... move on and replace them.

    If it means a new system, so be it. Athletes are paid millions. They'll learn.
  7. iceberg

    iceberg it's business, this emotional game Zone Supporter

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    but if new system time (and i don't think that will be the case) why let a "lame duck" coach put it in?
  8. followthestar

    followthestar Well-Known Member

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    i would give parcells total control over who to bring in, then shuffle the pack as needed once he leaves. let him bring in whoever he wishes, and personally i won't be sorry to see payton go but i hope zimmer stays.
  9. Mash

    Mash Active Member

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    I look at guys like Payton Manning, Trent Green....Farve....Palmer...Brady...they been runniing the same system for years....you need that to be successfull. I think especially on offence you need to be consistant with the system u run and usually that occurs with the same coordinator or a diciple of his.

    Some used that as a excuse with Carter's struggles here....he never had the same system back to back years. McNair struggled this year with Chow's offence. We were fortunate that both Vinny and Drew knew this offence system with their past experience playing for Bill.
  10. KingTuna

    KingTuna New Member

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    As long as we get Dom Capers as D/C then I will be happy!
  11. Rockytop6

    Rockytop6 Well-Known Member

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    I seriously doubt Zimmer and Payton are going any where. I know they were contacted but every DC, OC and waterboy have been contacted by somebody.
  12. sago1

    sago1 Active Member

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    And maybe Parcells isn't as wild to have both Zimmer & Payton back as some might think. Maybe Parcells would rather have someone like Dom Capers who knows the 3-4 system extremely well & who could teach our defense all the ins/outs of the more complex/packages the 3-4 defensive scheme is known for rather then the vanilla defense we had to play last year.

    As for Payton just don't know how much control he really had. Certainly seems like his play calling many times differed from what he did with Giants. One of the criticisms leveled at him in NY was that his offense was too complicated, etc. It sure didn't look at that here. Don't know who I would want in place of Payton & Norv's offense with Raiders sure didn't get off the ground but don't know much about the problem. Would think there other offensive coaches available to replace Payton.

    Also want a new OL coach with long-time experience coaching that position in the NFL. Raphel Vela mentioned the GB OL might be available depending onwhat happening there, but what about the current OL coach at KC. With new HC coming in, maybe that guy will be cut lose. Certainly doesn't appear any of the NY Jet coaches going along with new KC HC.
  13. Nors

    Nors Benched

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    Parcells has tremendously upgraded our 53 man roster in his tenure her. A few pegs to address on Oline, FS.....

    Him staying is a great thing. Who do you hire to replace him? Jimmy Johnson is gone so spare that? Who?
  14. Sarge

    Sarge Red, White and brew... Staff Member

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    Next year is Parcell's last year here, not this past one.
  15. iceberg

    iceberg it's business, this emotional game Zone Supporter

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    is it official then sarge??? man, i wish parcells would nut-up and tell every one then. otherwise you're just guessin like the rest of us.
  16. Jarv

    Jarv Loud pipes saves lives. Zone Supporter

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    Payton is something like an assitant head coach and QB or passing coach. We have no OC...Kinda odd, I think we are the only team in the league with no OC. I wonder why that is and I wonder how that affected the Offense ?

    Oh well, I look at it this way too. If Zimmer & Payton leave, who would replace them that wasn't already a "Parcels guys". And are there any "Parcels guys" availible ? With BP's rep now of micro management and ultra control, I don't think that "established and reputable" cordinators would even want to work with BP. BP would probably not give them "free reign" to run thier units as they see fit.

    So, Zimmer & Payton leave and "If" no ex BP guy is there...We get to promote from within or get a "non established and reputable" cordinators...Because that is all that would be willing to come here, for a promotion.

    Was Zimmer & Payton given control over their units, no...

    If you were Greg Willaims would you want to come work for BP ? Probably not. If you were Kubiak or another top notch OC, would you want to work for BP ?

    Heck, we don't even have an OC so BP might not even really want to replace a position that doesn't even excist in our organization. Heck, since we don't have an OC maybe BP feels we might not even need a DC.

    The last thing that has been bantered about too is, if you were to take a job as a cordinator here, you know the HC only has 1 year left on his contract. You could be coming for a 1 year gig because when we get a new HC next year, he better have the authority of hiring his own staff or we are back to the good ole years of Jerry hiring a coach and making a puppet out of them (ala Campo) and not letting them hire their own staff...That is not the type of HC we need in the future.
  17. iceberg

    iceberg it's business, this emotional game Zone Supporter

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    wild. it used to be we had an owner no legit coach would work for. now that we've solved that, we now have a coach no assistant wants to work for.
  18. Jarv

    Jarv Loud pipes saves lives. Zone Supporter

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    Ironic, isn't it.
  19. Skip

    Skip Member

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    Actually I hope we end up with a HC after BP that will keep the 3-4 and be aggressive with it!

    Also maybe just maybe Payton and Zimmer know they are in trouble with BP and think they will be replaced anyway.

    Clearly just speculation here.
  20. juice28

    juice28 Member

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    well it's getting better then right. that means in a couple of years we'll have assistant coaches no players want to play for.

    Wait....that's getting worse

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