If We All Agree That Payton is a Better Coach

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by birdwells1, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. birdwells1

    birdwells1 Well-Known Member

    3,831 Messages
    962 Likes Received
    I agree but I only think that it's 1 special case and that's Payton. I mean Holmgren will be 65 years old by the start of next season and imo you'll be getting BP #2 as far as being through. It's not often you get a SB winning coach in his prime and not coming off of being fired for a bad record.
  2. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

    33,928 Messages
    2,894 Likes Received
    So you judge coaches by fans complaining or not? Again, that makes no sense. Some fans complain about every coach. Fans complain about Parcells and Coughlin and others, too... Therefore Garrett is equal to them?

    And you do realize, don't you, that fans aren't complaining about the head coach of this team for some arbitrary reason. They're complaining because the team he's putting on the field is an underachieving, disorganized mess. We're 6-10 in our last 16 games now. That's unacceptable.

    Garrett's career doesn't compare. His record is much worse than Wade's. Sideline facial expressions and press conferences aside. So if he's a loser, what does that make Garrett?

    Jerry likes, even loves Jason as much as those guys, but there's no way he respects his coaching ability as much. Even he isn't that blind, or crazy.
  3. CATCH17

    CATCH17 1st Round Pick

    37,444 Messages
    15,395 Likes Received
    You let Romo finish his career with Holmgren and then you move on.

    I think it's a good short term fit for both sides.
  4. M'Kevon

    M'Kevon A Love Supreme

    3,753 Messages
    683 Likes Received
    I think it is more realistic that JJ goes hard after Payton, and if that fails (likely - I believe Payton uses JJ as leverage against NO), then he gives JG another year. Perhaps with Holgrem as an unofficial adviser to the GM.
  5. birdwells1

    birdwells1 Well-Known Member

    3,831 Messages
    962 Likes Received
    Yeah but why get a short term fit when you can potentially get a long term one?
  6. birdwells1

    birdwells1 Well-Known Member

    3,831 Messages
    962 Likes Received
    Yeah this is what I'm afraid of, Payton might already have his mind made up to go back to NO but it does nothing but hurt his leverage to show his hand now. What I see are signs of a chance might only really be negotiation tactics. I hope not.
  7. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

    39,006 Messages
    46,888 Likes Received
    No, I don't judge coaches by fans. I'm discrediting the criticisms of Garrett because Payton carried the same criticisms from the same people and once he left here he proved them wrong.

    I'm saying the issue is bigger than the head coach.

    Sure I know why. Yes, it's unacceptable. The question is what is the real problem causing it?

    You apparently think it's yet another bad head coach. I choose to believe it's the one constant that's remained through all this losing.

    Wade's failed at multiple stops. Garrett's only had a shot here under an owner nobody has won with since he decided he was a GM.

    It's hard to judge Garrett. It's not hard to judge Wade.

    Well this is just you guessing. And again, it's more than likely coming from a guy who would have drove Payton to the airport when he left. Since the majority of the fan base at the time felt that way. But now he's a coaching God clearly better than what we have here.

    Then he comes here and does the same thing everybody else has done. He must have lost his touch. Or maybe Drew Brees made him. Get rid of Payton. He's the problem. It's like a bad movie playing on an endless loop.
  8. TTexasTT

    TTexasTT Well-Known Member

    1,926 Messages
    737 Likes Received
    I dont think anyone in their right mind actually thinks this pipe dream will become reality.
    For those of you holding out hope, prepare yourself!

    Payton is not coming!
    Gruden is not coming!
    Holmgren is not coming!
    Cowher is not coming!

    It is MUCH more likely that the Cowboys win the Super Bowl than any of those guys become HC in Dallas.

    Im sorry. I really am.
  9. birdwells1

    birdwells1 Well-Known Member

    3,831 Messages
    962 Likes Received

    No you're not you like what Garrett is doing, go ahead and admit don't be ashamed. Lol.
  10. ConstantReboot

    ConstantReboot Well-Known Member

    5,410 Messages
    2,951 Likes Received
    I want Payton here badly. He is just what we need to turn this organization around. Payton rarely was criticized here because when he was the playcaller we always had a very good offense that was hamstrung by Parcells. Most people could see that Payton was a terrific playcaller and that he should be given the chance to call the plays that would benefit the team.

    During one game when Parcells told Payton to call the plays against the Eagles, that offense didn't waste a single minute in putting up more than 40 points against the Eagles. When he was here as the playcaller we never had problems with big plays and scoring. Now since Garrett has completely taken over this offense, our big play ability is gone and we struggle to put points on the board.

    Payton was rarely criticized here. Actually, if I recall, more people were stating that Payton should be calling the plays rather than Parcells - and that Parcells is holding our team back. Can you imagine if he was our HC without limitations? Our offense would be very, very explosive. Garrett doesn't even compare to Payton as a coach.
  11. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

    41,970 Messages
    28,624 Likes Received
    A culture change is not going to happen regardless.

    You can only hope to improve the situation.

    One thing I do not believe Jerry Jones influences things is on the gameday product.

    The practices might be a circus and the organizational decison-making baffling, but I do not think he calls down the field and advises Jason Garrett to making gaffes during a game that make Herm Edwards chuckle.

    You can only hope for small incremental improvements because unless generations of the Jones family are no longer in positions of power, real change is impossible.

    In other words, there are different degrees of being screwed.

    You just have to choose which one you are comfortable with.

    I would rather have hope of a Super Bowl winning coach with a killer instinct working under this dark cloud of ineptitude than a coach who is still "learning on the job" but is showing a distinct lack of progression from his days as an interim head coach.
  12. Aven8

    Aven8 Well-Known Member

    9,683 Messages
    7,294 Likes Received
    All I have is this to say about Payton. He won with a lot of Cowboy cast offs that we thought weren't very good.

    Devery Hendorson, Fujita, etc.

    With a strong offseason full of Oline, we might be contenders next year. ;)
  13. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

    41,970 Messages
    28,624 Likes Received
    Henderson never played for the Cowboys. But he did have Fujita and Scott Shanle do well. Even Remi Ayodele for a spell.
  14. TheSport78

    TheSport78 The Excellence of Execution

    8,583 Messages
    621 Likes Received
    It's comical that fans on this forum say that Payton wasn't successful here and or that all of us wanted him out of Dallas.

  15. Luckenbach

    Luckenbach Member

    91 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    Let's see...

    Garrett the OC was hired BEFORE Wade Philips the HC in 2007. (I'm sure all candidates were relieved that they didn't need to fill the position should they get the HC job...)

    Garrett was running the offense in the 1-6 stretch that got Wade fired.

    Yet his mediocre finish of .500 was enough to secure him the job.
    (I would've preferred Ray Sherman if we were handicapped into hiring from the inside of a 1-6 start season staff)

    Garrett's finish last season was 8-8. Before the 2010 season Wade Philips had 3 straight winning seasons (2 division titles in that span). Granted he was 1-2 in the 2 of 3 post seasons he made, but that is kinda looking decent at this point. Also right now Garrett including last season and so far this season equals Wades win total in his first season... 13... lucky number I guess...

    Effectively he's doing worse than Wade Philips. Literally and Figuratively. Since Garrett has been HC 3rd in our division seems to be the trend and the standard.

    This generalized BS that Garrett is being given undeserved criticism is interesting. Because even in Wins I've still disagreed with Garrett's strategy. Icing his own kicker, QB sneak on 1st down, throwing deep on 2nd and 1, 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1, but I digress...

    This fact holds true, I haven't liked Garrett since his hiring handicapped our Head Coach hiring in 2007.
  16. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

    1,222 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    This right here... the delusionalism that justifies anything Garrett is just comical.. Like I said, and his fans continually ignore, Jerry brought in his whole family. The idea that Jerry hasn't given support for Garrett to succeed is without a doubt ludicrous.
  17. Coy

    Coy Well-Known Member

    2,668 Messages
    1,205 Likes Received
    I guess you forgot the Brees era in SD, he was a good QB but nowhere close to being a HoF, what could have changed for him in NO I wonder? I answer your question the other way around, I wonder where Brees would be without Payton??
  18. TTexasTT

    TTexasTT Well-Known Member

    1,926 Messages
    737 Likes Received
    Ive seen you mention this before (atleast I think it was you) and I see what you are saying. I somewhat agree that Payton and Brees have a symbiotic relationship but if Brees were still in San Diego and Rivers never came along he would be absolutely racking up yardage (not that he isnt now) and thriving. However, I dont see NO being half as successful if, say, Rivers where behind center.
    This is just my opinion and Payton may be the whole key, idk.
  19. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

    5,830 Messages
    947 Likes Received
    When you look at the NO Saints do they look like a power running team to you?

    Isn't that what Romo needs to prevent him from having to put all other 10 guys on his back to get a 1st down?
  20. 17yearsandcounting

    17yearsandcounting Benched

    2,391 Messages
    1,677 Likes Received


Share This Page