1. Welcome to CowboysZone!  Join us!  Come on!  You know you want to!

If you're a draft fan. This is an absolute MUST read

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by CowboyHawg2012, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. CowboyHawg2012

    CowboyHawg2012 New Member

    65 Messages
    0 Likes Received
  2. CowboyHawg2012

    CowboyHawg2012 New Member

    65 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    Would anyone like to follow this process on here with a voting system and see if we cant come up with our own big board?
  3. Woods

    Woods Active Member

    12,374 Messages
    11 Likes Received
    Interesting what the writer wrote about Coples, imo relative to the Steelers draft philosophy.
  4. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

    59,642 Messages
    2,656 Likes Received
    Would be interested in hearing what it is they look for in OLBs or DEs and find out why Coples does not fit what they like.

    Wish the guy would have clarified.
  5. btcutter

    btcutter Well-Known Member

    2,643 Messages
    147 Likes Received
    I am at loss regard Coples. He should be a great 3-4 DE given how productive he was when he played DT the year prior. He was more productive at DT than at DE.
  6. btcutter

    btcutter Well-Known Member

    2,643 Messages
    147 Likes Received
    I am also "shocked" that Upshaw is rated top 10 in his list!
  7. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Active Member

    4,541 Messages
    3 Likes Received
    Awesome post!
  8. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

    1,381 Messages
    30 Likes Received
    My guess is that Coples is better as a 1 gap player whether playing at a 3 technique, 5 technique or as a 4-3 defensive end and Zierlein does not see him as a fit for the Steelers. The other great 1 gap player Cox is shorter and heavier.

    Personally, I think the Steelers would pick Coples too if they had the chance. I'm most surprised by his take on Upshaw. He is 2 inches shorter and less mobile than Coples. I'm not sure what position he plays for Pittsburgh. Baltimore, sure, because they play alot more 4-3.
  9. CowboysLaw87

    CowboysLaw87 Active Member

    592 Messages
    212 Likes Received
    For OLB's: The Steelers employ squatty, powerful base guys (Harrison and Woodley). Both Ingram and especially Upshaw fit the physical mold of Steeler OLB's than Coples, who is a huge 3-4 OLB prospect in the mold of what the Ravens prefer (Suggs, Adalius Thomas).

    For DE's: The Steelers, like most 3-4 teams, are looking for 300+ pound, long athletes that have a hard nosed mentality for stopping the run first and taking on blockers head on as opposed to running around them.

    Coples is a 4-3 DE. My guess is we wouldn't take him if he was there at 14. Same reason why we didn't take Nick Fairley at 9 last year... he didn't fit our scheme.
  10. SilverStarCowboy

    SilverStarCowboy The Actualist

    7,315 Messages
    353 Likes Received
    Upshaw in Pitt is Woodly, Upshaw here is Spencer..
  11. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

    6,091 Messages
    29 Likes Received
    interesting read, and I appreciate the insight, but, honestly, that's not much different than what Hostile posted weeks ago about the Cowboys procedures. Both methods of operation are very similar with the biggest difference being in how players fit their respective systems.
  12. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

    6,091 Messages
    29 Likes Received
    Excellent observation.
  13. FootballCorner

    FootballCorner New Member

    26 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    That is the writer's opinion that those players do or do not fit. I do not quite agree. Keisel was not a run stopper coming out of college and he was the same size as Coples. I do not think Upshaw fits the Steelers as an OLB either. People want to compare them to Woodley and Harrison but Upshaw is not the athlete that you see in Harrison and Woodley.

    It is not so much the 40 time, they are similar, but Harrison and Woodley have better short area quickness. Woodley's shuttle time was 4.47 shuttle. Upshaw was a 4.97. That is bad. Upshaw only had a 27.5" vertical jump. He only had 22 reps on the bench. That means he has 50 in 2 parts of a KEI and the 3rd is the BJ, and it is rarely over 11. A 61 is weak. Woodley's KEI was 78. MUCH more explosive. So is Harrison. Worilds, 2010 2nd round, had a KEI of 72. Gibson (same draft, 4th round), had a KEI of 74. Both were under 4.3 in the shuttle (good short area quicks).

    The Steelers do not just want squatty guys that cannot run, they look for guys with specific physical traits. Last year, they drafted Chris Carter, Fresno State. His KEI was 73 with a shuttle of 4.34.

    When they deviate from that plan, like with Bruce Davis, it blows up in their face.
  14. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

    18,704 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    Yup. Same thoughts occurred to me.

    Dallas will have scouts build initial ratings and asst coaches build ratings at their own positions and they'll compare.

    They'll take and put guys "in the box" they won't draft with Jerry and Jason present for the first time.

    They DO mock and predict other teams thoughts to create plans.
    But they enter the draft with a set of guys rated r1, a set rated r2 and so on with any number of guys just off the board due to position, character or other issues. They STOPPED punishing guys for healthy if they would make full recoveries. How we landed Lee and Carter where we did. They became values and just ate those rookie years to get primo talent.

    Jerry will make the picks but he'll look at Jason, Stephen and others around the war room to say this is the highest guy left and they guy we want right?
  15. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

    18,704 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    He lists Upshaw as a DE prospect. Not an OLB.
    This guy has a very good idea of what the Steelers look for as his Dad was in the war rooms for 3 years. He simply can't share all the specifics as he notes so tries to demonstrate the process without giving away their board.
  16. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

    18,704 Messages
    824 Likes Received
    I think this is pretty easy.

    You can take his board and place more emphasis on speed at OLB and coverage guys.

    We probably rate Mercilus and Coples a bit higher than Pitt. And thus prolly rate Upshaw and Ingram slightly lower than they do. The rest is about the same IMHO.

    We likely take WR off the board in r1 they way they do OC.
  17. robert70x7

    robert70x7 Active Member

    1,055 Messages
    9 Likes Received
    What positions would be taken off the board? IMO:
    • QB
    • RB (at least early on)
    • 4-3 players
    Anything else?
  18. Woods

    Woods Active Member

    12,374 Messages
    11 Likes Received
    If you're talking about Round 1, I'd take off WR, OT (unless he also plays OG) and TE as well.
  19. JBell523

    JBell523 That's my Quarterback

    3,171 Messages
    241 Likes Received
    We love complete TE's with SIZE. See Witten, Martellus, Philips.

    Kellen Davis, who we were targeting in free agency, is 6'7", 260+.

    I think you could cross a guy off like Orson Charles from our draft board as he doesn't fit in the mold of TE's we've been trying to target (only 6'3").
  20. FootballCorner

    FootballCorner New Member

    26 Messages
    0 Likes Received
    I realize he lists Upshaw as a DE, but you have to realize he thinks Upshaw would be an OLB for the Steelers. Think about it. He dismisses Coples as a Steeler DE and a lot of that has to do with size and inability to anchor against the run. Do you really think that the Steelers will use a 6014-272 pound defense end when they do not have a SINGLE defensive end under 6'3"-285 on roster and most are closer to 300 pounds. Upshaw would be an OLB conversion.

    And, he said himself that he and his father did not talk draft specifics. It was very rare. This is simply things he gleen. It is insightful. The method that they trimmed their board is where he gives great insight, not in how the players IN THIS DRAFT fit that board. He has no insight there because his dad no longer works for the Steelers.

    Those are his opinions and I disagree with them....various ones in fact. He makes statements like Bruce Irvin is not physical enough, yet the Steelers drafted Chris Carter last year, and he is not an overly physical guy, relies more on speed. In addition, he states Prater lacks size at 5101-190. The Steelers started William Gay at corner and he was 5101-187 at his Pro Day.

    He states Mike Martin: "Not big enough frame to anchor at NT in Steelers 3-4". Martin is 6012-306. Not a big enough frame to play NT in Steelers 3-4. The Steelers just had 11-year veteran Chris Hoke retire and he was THE primary backup at NT behind Casey Hampton. He was very beloved by the organization and Steeler fans. He is listed at 6'2"-305. They are built EXACTLY alike. Identical size and builds.

    So, while I appreciate some of the things he says, I take his player evaluations with a grain of salt.

Share This Page